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Western Maryland asks West Virginia to 'consider adding us' to their state

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Re: Western Maryland asks West Virginia to 'consider adding us' to their state

#81

> a media market based in Pittsburgh Pittsburgh, PA? On a map the western parts of Maryland seem vaguely as close to Pittsburgh as they are to Baltimore. Even if they were closer to Pittsburgh, PA why would media in Pittsburgh, PA cover events in western Maryland (since it's still kind of far away and Pittsburgh isn't that big a city)? I also don't know what they mean by "media market" being in Pittsburgh, again, if…

Pittsburgh is much more culturally rural-white than Baltimore

Interesting you had to use a throwaway for that comment. Pittsburgh has changed a lot in the last 20 years. The grouping of western MD counties in the Pittsburgh media market is purely one of geography.

Re: Western Maryland asks West Virginia to 'consider adding us' to their state

#83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Population of California: 39,656,838* Population of North + South Dakota: 1,645,198* Persons per senator in California: 19,828,419 Persons per senator in the Dakotas: 411,300 Getting highly-overrepresented people to give up their overrepresentation is a hard ask. *latest US Census figures

But that’s my design. Senators were never supposed to represent population proportionally. That’s what congressman are for, senators represent a state. If you want pure proportional representation then you need to dismiss senate, and change congressional election to nation wide proportional system. Afterwards you wouldn’t even need states anymore.

And, folks often forget, the fact that the states exist and have control of their elections is part of what helps with the incorruptibility of the system.

Re: Western Maryland asks West Virginia to 'consider adding us' to their state

#84
post #21
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yet people regularly try to push these ideas, from the earliest days of the Union when part of New Hampshire wanted to secede and join Vermont or form a new state in the Connecticut River valley ( https://www.flowofhistory.org/the-rebellion-in-western-new-h... ) More recently, there was that expensive California idea pushed by Tim Draper, as well as a new country in the Pacific Northwest including parts of Canada and…

The Cal 3 proposal actually made some sense as it would have given the people living there more representation in congress in the form of 4 new senators, as well as more local control. You would think that there would be broad support for the proposal considering a lot of people in these large left-leaning states often complain that their vote is not "worth as much" as a vote in a less populated state.

> The Cal 3 proposal actually made some sense

Not really, even on the scale of “crazy proposals to divide California into multiple states” , of which there have been a couple hundred since it was admitted to the union.

> it would have given the people living there more representation in congress in the form of 4 new senators, as well as more local control

Sure, and Cal58 (each existing county as its own state) would give them 114 new senators, and even more local control, by the same standards. Cal3 retained the main “problem” most recent “split California” proposals aim to fix, the perceived representation problem (particularly in the statewide executive and U.S. Senate) resulting from the deepest red parts of the State (which are on par with some of the deepest red parts of the country) being diluted in a big blue state. Two of the three Cal3 states (NorCal, Cal) would have been solid blue, including the one with the reddest parts of the existing State (Cal), and the other (SoCal) would have (at least, from the political state at the time) been fairly competitive (though also pretty solidly blue, in Presidential terms, if 2016 and 2020 worked out the same way by county.)

It also would have turned a lot of broad issues in the State, which cross the proposed borders, into potential federal issues, reducing local control (and also reducing the possibility of any favorable action in the presence of federal hostility – common given the structural rightward tilt of federal representation [which, while it would help a tiny bit with, it wouldn't neutralize] – or deadlock.)

> You would think that there would be broad support for the proposal considering a lot of people in these large left-leaning states often complain that their vote is not “worth as much” as a vote in a less populated state.

You would think that if you were thinking shallowly about that one complaint, and not the whole host of issues involved in splitting up an existing state.

Re: Western Maryland asks West Virginia to 'consider adding us' to their state

#85
post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pittsburgh is much more culturally rural-white than Baltimore

Interesting you had to use a throwaway for that comment. Pittsburgh has changed a lot in the last 20 years. The grouping of western MD counties in the Pittsburgh media market is purely one of geography.

This is my standard account. I live in Baltimore and have visited Pittsburgh many times. Baltimore is a black city with a much different culture than western Maryland or Pittsburgh

Re: Western Maryland asks West Virginia to 'consider adding us' to their state

#86
post #53
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These stories are also a reminder that dissolution is an ever present mechanism to overcome gridlock. I wouldn't be surprised if we start seeing radical proposals to break the deadlock in the US Senate start to gain steam.

There is no mechanism for dissolution.

Well there is war, but the last guys who tried that picked the wrong side of morality and furthermore lost badly. Since then, no one thinks secession is very credible in the USA.

Re: Western Maryland asks West Virginia to 'consider adding us' to their state

#88
post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Population of California: 39,656,838* Population of North + South Dakota: 1,645,198* Persons per senator in California: 19,828,419 Persons per senator in the Dakotas: 411,300 Getting highly-overrepresented people to give up their overrepresentation is a hard ask. *latest US Census figures

It's not over-representation, as the senate was never supposed to represent citizens, it was supposed to represent the states. At the time of the declaration of independence, there were some states much larger than others; Virginia had a population of ~747k, and Delaware was at ~59k.

The senate was also originally chosen by the state legislatures, the federal government wasn’t able to levy income taxes, DC wasn’t given federal representation, etc.

It can both be true that the senate was “designed” to represent different interests and at the same time we can critique it and say that certain states are “over represented” as the society the senate was originally designed for no longer exists. we have different needs and values than we did in 1789 and the system we live under today is already radically different than the one that existed in say 1800.

Re: Western Maryland asks West Virginia to 'consider adding us' to their state

#89
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Cal 3 proposal actually made some sense as it would have given the people living there more representation in congress in the form of 4 new senators, as well as more local control. You would think that there would be broad support for the proposal considering a lot of people in these large left-leaning states often complain that their vote is not "worth as much" as a vote in a less populated state.

> The Cal 3 proposal actually made some sense Not really, even on the scale of “crazy proposals to divide California into multiple states” , of which there have been a couple hundred since it was admitted to the union. > it would have given the people living there more representation in congress in the form of 4 new senators, as well as more local control Sure, and Cal58 (each existing county as its own state) would…

What are some of these broad statewide problems in California?

Re: Western Maryland asks West Virginia to 'consider adding us' to their state

#90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And the other party doesn't want people having representation at all. For the record, the popular vote percentages for the Democrats in the past 3 senate elections were: 53.0%, 58.2%, and 47.0%. That averages 52.7%, so gaining an extra two senate seats would still mean the Democrats were under-represented. (I know that the purpose of the senate is not to represent each citizen equally, I just thought it was worth poi…

The purpose of the senate is to make sure that low population regions have a voice, and that majority interests don’t trample minority interests. To say that one party doesn’t want people to be represented at all is a ridiculous straw-man.

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