Decreasing service fees on subscriptions to 15% • Hacker News Board

Re: Decreasing service fees on subscriptions to 15%

#61

Post by selfhoster11 » Thu, Oct 21, 2021, 8:16 PM UTC

Denzel wrote: post #52

realusername wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I want it one step further, it's not called "sideloading" but just "normal install", people should be able to install anything they want without some unwanted middleman, all the restrictions are just market distortions.

> people should be able to install anything they want without some unwanted middleman What “people” are you referring to? The millions of people, like yours truly, who’ve made the conscious decision to pay Apple because of their App Store model. I’m an engineer, I have a desktop and a laptop I can install whatever I want on. I’m ok with not doing that on my phone. In fact, I don’t want that experience on my phone. So…

Some people went with Apple in spite of their closed App Store model. They might have well not wanted it, but other advantages of iPhones won out for reasons that will remain their own.

As a reminder, Android requires manually ticking a checkbox before allowing sideloading. Sideloading is a choice, not a requirement. If you don't want to do it, don't enable it.

Re: Decreasing service fees on subscriptions to 15%

#62

Post by hehetrthrthrjn » Thu, Oct 21, 2021, 8:19 PM UTC

TeMPOraL wrote: post #59

marcellus23 wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, Jobs actually didn't want an App Store. He had to be convinced.

I'd really love to know his mindset, because it's completely unfathomable to me. The idea of applications on the phone was something blindingly obvious to me ever since my first Nokia 3410 I had as a kid. The phone had a bunch of distinct functionalities other than making calls, which you could invoke through a menu. Why shouldn't I be able to add new ones? Write new ones myself? Installing custom software was later…

> I'd really love to know his mindset, because it's completely unfathomable to me.

He was fixated on having complete control.

Re: Decreasing service fees on subscriptions to 15%

#63

Post by 8note » Thu, Oct 21, 2021, 8:22 PM UTC

dcchambers wrote: post #22

I think people are focused on the wrong issue. The fee % is not the problem. The problem is the restriction against using other types of payment processors. I am 100% OK with Google, Apple, or whoever charging whatever price they want to charge for using their app store services. They are, after all, providing all of the infrastucture for software delivery, updates, payments, etc. Not to mention giving you access to…

Control over payment flow is already in the right place imo, though I think the charges should be per transaction flat rates and not % based.

App developers are bad actors and should not be trusted to control payment information, refund policies, or subscription management. They will abuse all of them, and they already abuse the limited tools they have for in app payments.

Payment flow needs to be controlled by an entity that is trying to protect the buyer, not the developer

Re: Decreasing service fees on subscriptions to 15%

#64

Post by pornel » Thu, Oct 21, 2021, 8:25 PM UTC

dcchambers wrote: post #22

I think people are focused on the wrong issue. The fee % is not the problem. The problem is the restriction against using other types of payment processors. I am 100% OK with Google, Apple, or whoever charging whatever price they want to charge for using their app store services. They are, after all, providing all of the infrastucture for software delivery, updates, payments, etc. Not to mention giving you access to…

And Apple likes to pretend that there are no better payment options. I would prefer to subscribe via PayPal, because it's easier to cancel via them than via Apple's iTunes corpse.

Re: Decreasing service fees on subscriptions to 15%

#65

Post by warkdarrior » Thu, Oct 21, 2021, 8:30 PM UTC

smoldesu wrote: post #51

Sohcahtoa82 wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Geeks are very different audience from general public. HNers forget this quite often.

Sorry, I'll let the general public decide which package manager is more ethical.

I'll take any package manager that supports emoji in package names.

Re: Decreasing service fees on subscriptions to 15%

#66

Post by krferriter » Thu, Oct 21, 2021, 8:32 PM UTC

anxrn wrote: post #24

dcchambers wrote: post #22

I think people are focused on the wrong issue. The fee % is not the problem. The problem is the restriction against using other types of payment processors. I am 100% OK with Google, Apple, or whoever charging whatever price they want to charge for using their app store services. They are, after all, providing all of the infrastucture for software delivery, updates, payments, etc. Not to mention giving you access to…

Reminder that Jobs initially did not support having an app store at all for the original iPhone, IIRC for reasons of maintaining the bar on experience. His proposal was to build "apps" for use in Safari. https://appleinsider.com/articles/18/07/10/the-revolution-st...

We're now at the point where writing web-first apps that can get optionally also get compiled into "native" apps that run in a js/wasm runtime on any platform and act like native apps might get popular again.

Re: Decreasing service fees on subscriptions to 15%

#67

Post by CodesInChaos » Thu, Oct 21, 2021, 8:33 PM UTC

The google play subscription API is probably the worst I ever had to integrate with.

For example

* Response leaves out historic data (i.e. a subscription doesn't show it was paused, had a trial, etc. once they're over)

* Fetching the subscription state frequently returns data inconsistent with previous results (e.g. the start date of the subscription keeps changing, the expiry date keeps jumping around), so piecing together a subscription's history by combining versions observed at different times is practically impossible

* Each subscription is a singly linked list, but doesn't give you enough information to actually follow the link. And it's from newest to oldest

* Authentication is a mess (it's half integrated into the google cloud, but not really)

* Settings changes take about ~24h to take effect

Re: Decreasing service fees on subscriptions to 15%

#68

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Oct 21, 2021, 8:35 PM UTC

dcchambers wrote: post #31

weyland108 wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a iOS user I feel safer that all payments go through apple. I am assured of certain level of privacy and security which is very comforting.

I think the solution is for Apple to require that all payments at least have the option of being made through the app store payment system, while allowing developers that want to take the time and effort to set up outside payments do that as well. Consumers can continue to use app-store payments if they wish (and I bet the vast majority would), but developers and companies can no longer complain about Apple's monopol…

[deleted]

Re: Decreasing service fees on subscriptions to 15%

#69

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Oct 21, 2021, 8:36 PM UTC

vanattab wrote: post #39

dcchambers wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the solution is for Apple to require that all payments at least have the option of being made through the app store payment system, while allowing developers that want to take the time and effort to set up outside payments do that as well. Consumers can continue to use app-store payments if they wish (and I bet the vast majority would), but developers and companies can no longer complain about Apple's monopol…

Are you sure they wouldn't considering it would be 15%-20% cheaper?

[deleted]

Re: Decreasing service fees on subscriptions to 15%

#70

Post by krferriter » Thu, Oct 21, 2021, 8:36 PM UTC

weyland108 wrote: post #26

dcchambers wrote: post #22

I think people are focused on the wrong issue. The fee % is not the problem. The problem is the restriction against using other types of payment processors. I am 100% OK with Google, Apple, or whoever charging whatever price they want to charge for using their app store services. They are, after all, providing all of the infrastucture for software delivery, updates, payments, etc. Not to mention giving you access to…

As a iOS user I feel safer that all payments go through apple. I am assured of certain level of privacy and security which is very comforting.

Okay but charging fees on in-app purchases as a pretty high percentage of the purchase amount is ridiculous and basically just a moneymaking racket with no real justification, that they do just because they can and they already have a stable base of customers who are unlikely to switch to a competitor (Android is the only competitor).

Flat per-transaction fees to cover operating costs is more acceptable. But Apple might make less money in that scheme. On the other hand, more developers might be willing to write apps for iOS if they weren't getting gouged by such high Apple Store fees, so Apple might even come out ahead if they reformed their pricing and payments policy.