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Stop Calling Everything AI, Machine-Learning Pioneer Says

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Re: Stop Calling Everything AI, Machine-Learning Pioneer Says

#82
post #4

Michael I. Jordan is spot on. We have NO artificial intelligent systems, for any sensible definition of "intelligent". None. ZERO. We have "big data". We have (brittle and rather poor) "pattern recognition". We have (very limited) "simulate a conversation". But we do not even know what "intelligence" really means! We (the industry) should recognise "AI" as term that has become essentially meaningless. "AI" is now not…

I think the technical side of the industry has known this all along. AI is a dream to pursue.

The business/marketing side of the industry has doubled down on the term. Many industries outside have adopted it as a way to make their boring widget sound new and interesting.

I bought a TV with built in AI recently. It’s just a TV to me. I’m sure it has some algorithms but that word is old and does not sound premium anymore.

Whenever I see an AI startup, I mostly am expecting its really just some guy doing things that don’t scale, like manning a chat bot or something.

Re: Stop Calling Everything AI, Machine-Learning Pioneer Says

#83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> all existing AI systems are obviously halting computations simply because they are acyclic dataflow graphs No they aren't. Think about LSTMs for example.

So how do you get a value out of an LSTM?

Run it for as long as you want and look at the output state.

How do you the a value out of a person?

Re: Stop Calling Everything AI, Machine-Learning Pioneer Says

#84
post #4

Michael I. Jordan is spot on. We have NO artificial intelligent systems, for any sensible definition of "intelligent". None. ZERO. We have "big data". We have (brittle and rather poor) "pattern recognition". We have (very limited) "simulate a conversation". But we do not even know what "intelligence" really means! We (the industry) should recognise "AI" as term that has become essentially meaningless. "AI" is now not…

'AI' as a term has been used by people in the industry for decades even by early computer science pioneers reffering to incredibly simple applications - it was hollywood that appropriated the term to the likes of skynet - not the other way around.

Re: Stop Calling Everything AI, Machine-Learning Pioneer Says

#85

I'm in the submarine AI camp[1]. I'd rather build tools that kinda help humans do thinking, rather than thinking machines. Like how submarines help humans swim but who cares if they are actually swimming. 1. "The question of whether a computer can think is no more interesting than the question of whether a submarine can swim." - Edsger Dijkstra

There are lots of creatures that can swim. Most of them swim better than a human. That’s why it’s not very interesting when we discover a new one. In contrast, humans are arguably the only creatures in the universe that can think. Certainly we have never discovered a creature that can think better than a human. Thus it would be highly exciting if we discovered or created one.

How does a creature proactively use tools to more easily prepare/gather foods without "thinking?"

How does a young creature observe an elder doing something, and then copy it, without some form of thought occurring? It seems the elders are teaching the youth, and the youth are learning, but I'm not sure how that can happen without thinking.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Cp7_In7f88

Re: Stop Calling Everything AI, Machine-Learning Pioneer Says

#86

People often bring up the quip that "as soon as something is AI, people stop calling it AI" but I think pretty much the opposite has happened, the term has been expanded so much that almost any stochastic computation that solves some computational problem is now shoved under that umbrella. However unlike jordan in the article who takes that as an opportunity to focus even more on engineering and practical application…

The description of the Turing test certainly alludes to a test of machine intelligence. So to some degree it is appropriate for AI to have a large umbrella.

My problem with the endless battle to define AI is that there are a hopelessly clueless cohort of people with money that chase the term like its their golden goose, and therefore anybody that wants funding needs to market their thing as AI.

And I think a lot of researchers cringe at the wanton use of AI because it devalues the work that they're doing. I just give it the shoulder shrug of approval - "I get it, you need funding too". And from that perspective I really wish that tree-based ML methods and logic programming languages and rule engines were still called AI, because they're really cool but horribly neglected because theyre not the latest thing.

Re: Stop Calling Everything AI, Machine-Learning Pioneer Says

#87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So how do you get a value out of an LSTM?

Run it for as long as you want and look at the output state. How do you the a value out of a person?

So then in the statement of the theorem the agent A can determine how many cycles the unit will run before halting, correct?

Re: Stop Calling Everything AI, Machine-Learning Pioneer Says

#88
My background is in automation and robotics; I studied system identification: a discipline where you would use mathematical means to identify a dynamic system model by observing input/output.

You treat the system as a black box and estimate a set of parameters that can describe it (e.g., Kalman filter).

I struggle to understand what's the fundamental difference between system identification and ML/AI. Anyone?

You ultimately have a bunch of data and try to estimate/fit a model that can describe a particular behavior.

It all comes down to a big optimization/interpolation problem. Isn't what they call "Learning" just really "estimating" ?

Then the more CPU/memory/storage you have, the more parameters/data you can estimate/process, the more accurate and sophisticated the model can be.

Re: Stop Calling Everything AI, Machine-Learning Pioneer Says

#90
post #4

Michael I. Jordan is spot on. We have NO artificial intelligent systems, for any sensible definition of "intelligent". None. ZERO. We have "big data". We have (brittle and rather poor) "pattern recognition". We have (very limited) "simulate a conversation". But we do not even know what "intelligence" really means! We (the industry) should recognise "AI" as term that has become essentially meaningless. "AI" is now not…

> We have "big data". We have (brittle and rather poor) "pattern recognition". We have (very limited) "simulate a conversation".

Yes, yes, yes, exactly.

> We have NO artificial intelligent systems, for any sensible definition of "intelligent". None. ZERO.

Yes, though -- what are some of your sensible definitions of intelligence?

> But we do not even know what "intelligence" really means!

...oh. I mean, you're not wrong, we don't know. But then how can you argue that AI isn't "intelligent"?

What if human "intelligence" really just is pattern recognition too? With maybe some theory of mind, executive function, and "reasoning" -- Mike complains machines can't do thinking in the sense of "high level" reasoning, though one could argue they just don't have enough training data here.

And everything else is emergent?

Then we're maybe not as super far off.

I'm reminded of the Arthur C. Clarke quote [0]:

> If an elderly but distinguished scientist says that something is possible, he is almost certainly right; but if he says that it is impossible, he is very probably wrong.

[0] https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/remembering-sir-a...

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