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Hardened wood as a renewable alternative to steel and plastic

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121–130 of 282 posts

Re: Hardened wood as a renewable alternative to steel and plastic

#121
post #113
post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not to mention all that carbon released when the wood decomposes - no ?

Yes, that's why planting trees to offset carbon emissions is not really as good an idea as it seems, trees can live a long time but they're not immortal, and when they die they release their carbon back into the environment.

If you leave them alone to make baby trees, they can be an amortized constant capture or better.

Meanwhile they liberate oxygen, which I enjoy daily.

Re: Hardened wood as a renewable alternative to steel and plastic

#122
post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At least this material has a main ingredient that is renewable. No part of steel is renewable right? You can't grow more iron ore (though there is a lot of it lying around). Also I'm doubting "minimal processing" for steel. You have to dig up the ore with giant machines, transport huge amounts of it by train, smash it with a lot of energy and heavy equipment, melt it with a lot of energy and heavy equipment, etc., et…

> You can't grow more iron ore (though there is a lot of it lying around). We live on a thin crusty shell around a ball of iron.

> ball of iron

... which is way beyond our reach.

Re: Hardened wood as a renewable alternative to steel and plastic

#123

Wood is renewable when you can grow it, cut it up into useful shapes, then at the end of its useful life, compost it. As soon as you add a shit load of processing and plastic and other stuff it's not "wood" anymore than gasoline is a dead dinosaur. As for things like plywood that use glue for the laminations...glue is the most expensive and important part of the product. Not the wood so much. Replacing steel? I don't…

You can make steel with charcoal, which is carbon neutral in the end: https://aeon.co/essays/could-we-reboot-a-modern-civilisation... What I like about this idea is it's a way to take carbon out of the air while manufacturing something. We are going to have to deal with carbon no matter what, why not manufacture things with it?

> You can make steel with charcoal

Not at the scale at which the world needs steel.

Re: Hardened wood as a renewable alternative to steel and plastic

#124
post #12

I've been intrigued for a while about various modified wood technologies (eg hardened wood, transparent wood), but I'm always disappointed because it usually ends up just being a minor support structure for a very non-wood material (generally epoxy). This one shows a compression step, so maybe it's different, but I'd really like more info on whether this is actually renewable or sustainable in any interesting sense.…

As an aside, the article mentions:

> After the material is processed and carved into the desired shape, it is coated in *mineral oil* to extend its lifetime.

I was thinking how, surely, mineral oil isn't food-safe and well-fit for use on a utensil. However, it turns out that while low-grade mineral oil is proved carcinogenic, the high-grade version is not believed to be so, unless dispersed in a mist. And apparently, we consume quite a bit of mineral oil due to it's use in the baking industry (though that figure comes from 1961)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mineral_oil#Food_preparation

Re: Hardened wood as a renewable alternative to steel and plastic

#125
post #113
post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not to mention all that carbon released when the wood decomposes - no ?

Yes, that's why planting trees to offset carbon emissions is not really as good an idea as it seems, trees can live a long time but they're not immortal, and when they die they release their carbon back into the environment.

If you turn what now is barren land or grasslands into a forest, it absorbs CO2 as it grows, and that CO2 stays captured for as long as that land is a forest, it doesn't matter if individual trees die and decompose.

Re: Hardened wood as a renewable alternative to steel and plastic

#126

Wood is renewable when you can grow it, cut it up into useful shapes, then at the end of its useful life, compost it. As soon as you add a shit load of processing and plastic and other stuff it's not "wood" anymore than gasoline is a dead dinosaur. As for things like plywood that use glue for the laminations...glue is the most expensive and important part of the product. Not the wood so much. Replacing steel? I don't…

You can make steel with charcoal, which is carbon neutral in the end: https://aeon.co/essays/could-we-reboot-a-modern-civilisation... What I like about this idea is it's a way to take carbon out of the air while manufacturing something. We are going to have to deal with carbon no matter what, why not manufacture things with it?

It has a carbon neutral implementation (grow trees, the burn them) but it also has a carbon positive alternative which I much cheaper (cut down existing forests an go out of business once there's no forests)

Wood chip heating already has that problem

Re: Hardened wood as a renewable alternative to steel and plastic

#127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Curious about your opinion on bamboo products. I assume you're referring to modern bamboo desks, shelves, and other items that are made from Chinese bamboo and made in China. They typically slice the bamboo grass pieces into ~8 sections, then use planing machines to create planks※. These are then pressed and glued together to make products. These products are then shipped overseas using the same methods as other prod…

Some good photos of the process here[1]. The figure that's generally quoted for the time it takes for a mature timber bamboo culm to grow from a shoot to ~20m to be harvested is 3-5yr. Obviously each one is small compared to a large tree, but a stand of bamboo can produce a lot. 1; https://www.bambooimport.com/en/how-is-bamboo-lumber-made

That's an amazing link, with unadorned and unpolished shots of the factory where the bamboo lumber is made. Very interesting.

Re: Hardened wood as a renewable alternative to steel and plastic

#128
post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At least this material has a main ingredient that is renewable. No part of steel is renewable right? You can't grow more iron ore (though there is a lot of it lying around). Also I'm doubting "minimal processing" for steel. You have to dig up the ore with giant machines, transport huge amounts of it by train, smash it with a lot of energy and heavy equipment, melt it with a lot of energy and heavy equipment, etc., et…

Wood also requires heavy equipment to cut, mill, process. Not to mention, it needs a heck of a lot of land area. In addition to whatever process is involved in "hardening" this wood. Plus, steel is entirely recyclable. And it has some natural properties that make is relatively easy to recycle. It can be sorted with magnets, and it has a higher melting point than most impurities.

The big advantage to wood though, is that while it's growing it's a carbon sink, and once hardened that carbon is likely stored forever.

Re: Hardened wood as a renewable alternative to steel and plastic

#129
For people who are interested in Timber Building / Construction.

The World's Tallest Timber Buildings [1],

Why Finland is Building a Wood City [2].

Why There Are No Timber Skyscrapers [3],

Why All Buildings Should Be Timber [4]

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v3JqSsc8ZKk

[2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L4QYkEpw9pA

[3] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p_8LlcuV0gc

[4] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ieBVNgMkcpw

Re: Hardened wood as a renewable alternative to steel and plastic

#130
post #70

Wood is renewable when you can grow it, cut it up into useful shapes, then at the end of its useful life, compost it. As soon as you add a shit load of processing and plastic and other stuff it's not "wood" anymore than gasoline is a dead dinosaur. As for things like plywood that use glue for the laminations...glue is the most expensive and important part of the product. Not the wood so much. Replacing steel? I don't…

At least this material has a main ingredient that is renewable. No part of steel is renewable right? You can't grow more iron ore (though there is a lot of it lying around). Also I'm doubting "minimal processing" for steel. You have to dig up the ore with giant machines, transport huge amounts of it by train, smash it with a lot of energy and heavy equipment, melt it with a lot of energy and heavy equipment, etc., et…

The iron in the universe is increasing over time.

On earth it replenishes too via meteorite strikes and by nuclear decay. I'm not sure was decays into iron, but I'm sure it's most things, given its name as the most stable element

Mind you, rust is quite similar to iron ore

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