Decreasing service fees on subscriptions to 15% • Hacker News Board

Re: Decreasing service fees on subscriptions to 15%

#11

Post by echelon » Thu, Oct 21, 2021, 6:39 PM UTC

beojan wrote: post #9

echelon wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Credit card transactions take far less, and they deal in legitimate risk (chargebacks, stolen cards, fraud, etc). As developers, we don't even need app stores. They're an artifice that got shoved down our throat by trillion dollar mega corporations. A taxation clearinghouse. You can distribute the same program bytes from anywhere, most notably the web. It's Steve Ballmer's old dream of taxing all software. There's ju…

From a user's perspective, the review is absolutely necessary and really needs to be much better on Android. Proactive vetoing of malware from distribution is much better than reactive malware scanning against a signature library. That doesn't really justify a slice of subscription revenue though.

> review is absolutely necessary

Wholeheartedly disagree. I download software on Linux and Mac frequently without ever having it reviewed.

I buy physical products that have sensors. These don't get scrutinized.

If we truly need a "health inspector", then it should be a third party. Not the mafia that makes the device and frequently launches competing apps and features.

And it seems totally uneven that websites can access and deal in the same data, yet they escape review.

It's an invented charade that is brutally unfair.

Re: Decreasing service fees on subscriptions to 15%

#12

Post by kumarm » Thu, Oct 21, 2021, 6:39 PM UTC

Great news for anyone building business based on IAP/Subscriptions on Google Play. It is really sad to see mostly negative views on the topic.

Here are important benefits compared to previously made changes by google:

1. Subscription revenue share drops to 15% instead of 30% without 1 million/year limit.

2. E-Books and Music Streaming services will pay 10% instead of 30%.

This is great news not only for developers on google Play but also iOS Developers, it will put pressure on Apple to cut Apple Tax further.

Re: Decreasing service fees on subscriptions to 15%

#13

Post by Factorium » Thu, Oct 21, 2021, 6:40 PM UTC

concinds wrote: post #3

I don't see the point. Spotify's not willing to give up 10% of their Android revenue, they'll still use their own payment. Epic won't give up 15%. South Korea mandated that apps be allowed to have custom payment methods within apps. Why would any big company, whether Netflix, Epic or Spotify, still give Android 10%? It just seems that the "app store pay toll" is getting less and less justifiable; and it seems outrage…

Just to be clear, this is just 30% --> 15% for subscriptions.

One-off purchases for large companies ($1m+) still attracts 30%.

Re: Decreasing service fees on subscriptions to 15%

#14

Post by mdoms » Thu, Oct 21, 2021, 6:42 PM UTC

concinds wrote: post #3

I don't see the point. Spotify's not willing to give up 10% of their Android revenue, they'll still use their own payment. Epic won't give up 15%. South Korea mandated that apps be allowed to have custom payment methods within apps. Why would any big company, whether Netflix, Epic or Spotify, still give Android 10%? It just seems that the "app store pay toll" is getting less and less justifiable; and it seems outrage…

> I don't see the point. Spotify's not willing to give up 10% of their Android revenue, they'll still use their own payment. Epic won't give up 15%.

Sounds like we've got a healthy competitive marketplace. Great.

Re: Decreasing service fees on subscriptions to 15%

#15

Post by toast0 » Thu, Oct 21, 2021, 6:42 PM UTC

echelon wrote: post #8

joenathanone wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed, personally I think 3-5% would be fair anything more is rent seeking.

Credit card transactions take far less, and they deal in legitimate risk (chargebacks, stolen cards, fraud, etc). As developers, we don't even need app stores. They're an artifice that got shoved down our throat by trillion dollar mega corporations. A taxation clearinghouse. You can distribute the same program bytes from anywhere, most notably the web. It's Steve Ballmer's old dream of taxing all software. There's ju…

> Credit card transactions take far less.

Depends on the payment processor/mechant bank/payment network/issuing bank and the fixed fees vs transaction amount. 3-5% is in range for a card not present transaction for a low dollar amount with not a lot of volume.

If Google or Apple gets a good deal on credit card processing because of volume and takes that plus a little extra to pay for their services, that's a lot more fair than 15-30%; high volume developers might want to shave that margin a bit more, but low and medium probably wouldn't bother.

Re: Decreasing service fees on subscriptions to 15%

#16

Post by wastedhours » Thu, Oct 21, 2021, 6:42 PM UTC

echelon wrote: post #8

joenathanone wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed, personally I think 3-5% would be fair anything more is rent seeking.

Credit card transactions take far less, and they deal in legitimate risk (chargebacks, stolen cards, fraud, etc). As developers, we don't even need app stores. They're an artifice that got shoved down our throat by trillion dollar mega corporations. A taxation clearinghouse. You can distribute the same program bytes from anywhere, most notably the web. It's Steve Ballmer's old dream of taxing all software. There's ju…

As a developer I want the option of App Stores taking their cut - them being the Merchant of Record takes out a monumental admin overhead from selling apps globally for a small developer.

I also work for a global tech company whereby that approach isn't needed as we have our own payment processing to handle that, but as a part-time indie, I want the option of deferring to the stores for payments.

Re: Decreasing service fees on subscriptions to 15%

#17

Post by smoldesu » Thu, Oct 21, 2021, 6:46 PM UTC

sofixa wrote: post #10

echelon wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Credit card transactions take far less, and they deal in legitimate risk (chargebacks, stolen cards, fraud, etc). As developers, we don't even need app stores. They're an artifice that got shoved down our throat by trillion dollar mega corporations. A taxation clearinghouse. You can distribute the same program bytes from anywhere, most notably the web. It's Steve Ballmer's old dream of taxing all software. There's ju…

As a consumer, i want app stores. It's million times better than the default Windows situation downloading random binaries off the Internet. Code signing and malware signature matching are at best bandaids on a waterfall. Having a centralised place with reviews categories, updates etc. is very valuable.

Not all app stores are centralized, Linux has had this figured out for years.

Re: Decreasing service fees on subscriptions to 15%

#18

Post by commoner » Thu, Oct 21, 2021, 6:47 PM UTC

wastedhours wrote: post #16

echelon wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Credit card transactions take far less, and they deal in legitimate risk (chargebacks, stolen cards, fraud, etc). As developers, we don't even need app stores. They're an artifice that got shoved down our throat by trillion dollar mega corporations. A taxation clearinghouse. You can distribute the same program bytes from anywhere, most notably the web. It's Steve Ballmer's old dream of taxing all software. There's ju…

As a developer I want the option of App Stores taking their cut - them being the Merchant of Record takes out a monumental admin overhead from selling apps globally for a small developer. I also work for a global tech company whereby that approach isn't needed as we have our own payment processing to handle that, but as a part-time indie, I want the option of deferring to the stores for payments.

As long as the cut is priced into that option (as in, the fee is passed on to the customer through a higher price for app stores) without affecting the price of buying directly from the developer, and without any anti-steering rules that prevent the developer from presenting the customer with all purchase options and prices in the app, there shouldn't be a problem.

Developers who don't want to set up payments outside of the app store can choose not to do that. But that choice should not prevent the developers who do want to offer a lower-cost payment processing option to their customers from doing so.

Re: Decreasing service fees on subscriptions to 15%

#19

Post by hutzlibu » Thu, Oct 21, 2021, 6:48 PM UTC

echelon wrote: post #11

beojan wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From a user's perspective, the review is absolutely necessary and really needs to be much better on Android. Proactive vetoing of malware from distribution is much better than reactive malware scanning against a signature library. That doesn't really justify a slice of subscription revenue though.

> review is absolutely necessary Wholeheartedly disagree. I download software on Linux and Mac frequently without ever having it reviewed. I buy physical products that have sensors. These don't get scrutinized. If we truly need a "health inspector", then it should be a third party. Not the mafia that makes the device and frequently launches competing apps and features. And it seems totally uneven that websites can ac…

But you know, that you can also just download and install software on Android?

But yes, this requires knowledge of what you are doing.

So most people rightfully choose the playstore - and maintaining (and curating) the playstore requires work. So I also think it is fair, if google gets a cut. But 30% and also 15% is just cutthroat price range.

Re: Decreasing service fees on subscriptions to 15%

#20

Post by cptskippy » Thu, Oct 21, 2021, 6:57 PM UTC

echelon wrote: post #8

joenathanone wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed, personally I think 3-5% would be fair anything more is rent seeking.

Credit card transactions take far less, and they deal in legitimate risk (chargebacks, stolen cards, fraud, etc). As developers, we don't even need app stores. They're an artifice that got shoved down our throat by trillion dollar mega corporations. A taxation clearinghouse. You can distribute the same program bytes from anywhere, most notably the web. It's Steve Ballmer's old dream of taxing all software. There's ju…

> Credit card transactions take far less, and they deal in legitimate risk (chargebacks, stolen cards, fraud, etc).

For high volume merchants.

For mom and pop shops they usually pay a fixed fee + %. For transactions under $5 they can lose money on a sale which is why you quite often see minimum purchase prices or discounts when paying with cash. In some states however there are no laws protecting small businesses and processor contractors usually have a clause forbidding merchants from steering customers away from paying with a card.

A local baobao shop by me offers a 10% discount for cash transactions, that tells me they make more money offering a 10% discount than accepting a card. When I was in Georgia my drycleaner told me she didn't make money on any card transaction under $25.