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Western Maryland asks West Virginia to 'consider adding us' to their state

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Re: Western Maryland asks West Virginia to 'consider adding us' to their state

#11

Post by pmyteh »

umvi wrote: post #5

Tangential, but instead of making DC into a new state, why not just absorb it into Maryland? Virginia already absorbed the part of DC rhombus west of the Potomac.

DC doesn't want to be part of Maryland (they like being independent and feel that Maryland's concerns are not theirs) and Maryland doesn't want DC (they feel it would move the centre of gravity of the state even further towards the DC suburbs, making it worse for the further-flung parts of the state).

National Democrats would also like two more Senate seats (and both DC and Maryland are predominantly Democratic, DC absurdly so) while national Republicans are happy enough with the status quo, giving DC no voting representation in Congress at all. So there's no strong momentum for movement on any side except DC's (who don't have the power to do anything about it by themselves).

Re: Western Maryland asks West Virginia to 'consider adding us' to their state

#12

Post by dane-pgp »

jnwatson wrote: post #3

Article 1, Section 2 of the Constitution: “The legislature, in cooperation with the properly constituted authority of any adjoining state, is empowered to change, alter, and redefine the state boundaries, such change, alteration and redefinition to become effective only upon approval of the Congress of the United States.” Essentially they’d need approval from WV, MD, and an act of Congress. Highly unlikely. This issu…

> This issue is one of the many defects in democracies: your power sometimes rests in the way somebody drew a border a long time ago.

If you have the power to move to the other side of the border, then that at least limits the difference between perfect democracy and reality. Admittedly the costs involved in moving does make this option similar to a poll tax, though.

More generally, though, I wouldn't phrase things in terms of "defects in democracies" but rather "examples of how some implementations of political systems fall short of the goals of democracy". Other examples would be lax campaign financing rules, non-proportional voting systems, and gerrymandering (which is the opposite problem, i.e. someone drawing a border very recently).

Re: Western Maryland asks West Virginia to 'consider adding us' to their state

#13

Post by fsckboy »

ilamont wrote: post #8
jnwatson wrote: post #3

Article 1, Section 2 of the Constitution: “The legislature, in cooperation with the properly constituted authority of any adjoining state, is empowered to change, alter, and redefine the state boundaries, such change, alteration and redefinition to become effective only upon approval of the Congress of the United States.” Essentially they’d need approval from WV, MD, and an act of Congress. Highly unlikely. This issu…

Yet people regularly try to push these ideas, from the earliest days of the Union when part of New Hampshire wanted to secede and join Vermont or form a new state in the Connecticut River valley ( https://www.flowofhistory.org/the-rebellion-in-western-new-h... ) More recently, there was that expensive California idea pushed by Tim Draper, as well as a new country in the Pacific Northwest including parts of Canada and…

or when part of Massachusetts did spin off and become Maine

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/District_of_Maine

Re: Western Maryland asks West Virginia to 'consider adding us' to their state

#14

Post by eatonphil »

> a media market based in Pittsburgh

Pittsburgh, PA? On a map the western parts of Maryland seem vaguely as close to Pittsburgh as they are to Baltimore. Even if they were closer to Pittsburgh, PA why would media in Pittsburgh, PA cover events in western Maryland (since it's still kind of far away and Pittsburgh isn't that big a city)?

I also don't know what they mean by "media market" being in Pittsburgh, again, if they mean PA.

I Google and can't find a Pittsburgh, MD so I assume they are talking about PA. But I'm still confused.

Re: Western Maryland asks West Virginia to 'consider adding us' to their state

#15

Post by _jal »

ilamont wrote: post #8
jnwatson wrote: post #3

Article 1, Section 2 of the Constitution: “The legislature, in cooperation with the properly constituted authority of any adjoining state, is empowered to change, alter, and redefine the state boundaries, such change, alteration and redefinition to become effective only upon approval of the Congress of the United States.” Essentially they’d need approval from WV, MD, and an act of Congress. Highly unlikely. This issu…

Yet people regularly try to push these ideas, from the earliest days of the Union when part of New Hampshire wanted to secede and join Vermont or form a new state in the Connecticut River valley ( https://www.flowofhistory.org/the-rebellion-in-western-new-h... ) More recently, there was that expensive California idea pushed by Tim Draper, as well as a new country in the Pacific Northwest including parts of Canada and…

I think of it as Fantasy Cartography, or maybe Fantasy Nation State-Building.

Frequently, but not exclusively, found among those who enjoy feeling historical grievances.

Re: Western Maryland asks West Virginia to 'consider adding us' to their state

#16

Post by lumost »

ilamont wrote: post #8
jnwatson wrote: post #3

Article 1, Section 2 of the Constitution: “The legislature, in cooperation with the properly constituted authority of any adjoining state, is empowered to change, alter, and redefine the state boundaries, such change, alteration and redefinition to become effective only upon approval of the Congress of the United States.” Essentially they’d need approval from WV, MD, and an act of Congress. Highly unlikely. This issu…

Yet people regularly try to push these ideas, from the earliest days of the Union when part of New Hampshire wanted to secede and join Vermont or form a new state in the Connecticut River valley ( https://www.flowofhistory.org/the-rebellion-in-western-new-h... ) More recently, there was that expensive California idea pushed by Tim Draper, as well as a new country in the Pacific Northwest including parts of Canada and…

These stories are also a reminder that dissolution is an ever present mechanism to overcome gridlock. I wouldn't be surprised if we start seeing radical proposals to break the deadlock in the US Senate start to gain steam.

Re: Western Maryland asks West Virginia to 'consider adding us' to their state

#18

Post by setpatchaddress »

jnwatson wrote: post #3

Article 1, Section 2 of the Constitution: “The legislature, in cooperation with the properly constituted authority of any adjoining state, is empowered to change, alter, and redefine the state boundaries, such change, alteration and redefinition to become effective only upon approval of the Congress of the United States.” Essentially they’d need approval from WV, MD, and an act of Congress. Highly unlikely. This issu…

I could see Congress going along with this in exchange for DC statehood.

But, while we're talking about things that won't ever happen, we should also combine the Dakotas into one state. Lot of government administrative resources wasted for very few people actually living there. And we're paying for four senators, where two is way more than necessary to represent that population.

Re: Western Maryland asks West Virginia to 'consider adding us' to their state

#20

Post by ksenzee »

nemacol wrote: post #6

I am not sure I understand the goals here. Gerrymandering 2.0? WV lost a seat in the 2020 census. Would move seats from Maryland to WV. From Blue to Red. I like to idea just to square off WV's eastern panhandle. It would look nice on a map with a flat top.

The article lists several reasons: culturally they feel closer to WV, they want to be able to do things like fracking that MD has outlawed, they don't feel heard by the MD government on issues like gun rights and taxes. Essentially they have a cultural divide that has grown deep enough that they want to secede. It's unlikely to happen while Joe Manchin is in office, though; he would likely pitch a fit and get Democrats in the Senate to kill it.
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