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Hardened wood as a renewable alternative to steel and plastic

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Re: Hardened wood as a renewable alternative to steel and plastic

#71

Post by ip26 »

canadian_tired wrote: post #64

Wood is renewable when you can grow it, cut it up into useful shapes, then at the end of its useful life, compost it. As soon as you add a shit load of processing and plastic and other stuff it's not "wood" anymore than gasoline is a dead dinosaur. As for things like plywood that use glue for the laminations...glue is the most expensive and important part of the product. Not the wood so much. Replacing steel? I don't…

Steel is amazing - and as a result we use it in all kinds of places where its properties aren't fully utilized.

Aluminum has been growing into that role of "steel alternative", but there's still room for other alternatives.

Re: Hardened wood as a renewable alternative to steel and plastic

#72

Post by goohle »

vimy wrote: post #30
account_b wrote: post #29

As far as I know, the Earth's surface cannot meet humanity's current need for hydrocarbons, polymers or building materials. Biomass production is limited by sun energy and most importantly phosphorus and nitrogen cycles. Even hundred of years ago, people were already exhausting regenerative capacities and back then there were only around half a billion humans living on all this planet. Petrol chemistry and mineral ex…

We need to mine in space.

First, we need to marsoform Terra to make mining in space cheaper than mining at Earth.

Re: Hardened wood as a renewable alternative to steel and plastic

#73

Post by mikeg8 »

EGreg wrote: post #69
canadian_tired wrote: post #64

Wood is renewable when you can grow it, cut it up into useful shapes, then at the end of its useful life, compost it. As soon as you add a shit load of processing and plastic and other stuff it's not "wood" anymore than gasoline is a dead dinosaur. As for things like plywood that use glue for the laminations...glue is the most expensive and important part of the product. Not the wood so much. Replacing steel? I don't…

Not to mention all that carbon released when the wood decomposes - no ?

No expert here but I believe it depends on how it decomposes. If wood rots at the surface, my understanding is more carbon is released into the atmosphere but if it is buried or decomposed using fungi or soil microbes, more carbon is captured into the soil.

Forests have a lot of decaying and decomposing deadfall wood but still seem to be a carbon sink so it may be a layering thing...

Re: Hardened wood as a renewable alternative to steel and plastic

#74

Post by joshvm »

nico_h wrote: post #2

Can't read the article. How energy efficient and environmentally friendly is the hardening process compared to making steel? And is it a "in 20 years" thing again, like all new battery tech?

Steel is incredibly energy intensive. It's not unusual for casting plants to have their own dedicated power stations. Traditionally you'd use coke to melt things (well, smelt iron ore), nowadays with induction/arc furnaces you can in theory use green energy, but it's still a huge amount of power.

Re: Hardened wood as a renewable alternative to steel and plastic

#75

Post by booi »

EGreg wrote: post #69
canadian_tired wrote: post #64

Wood is renewable when you can grow it, cut it up into useful shapes, then at the end of its useful life, compost it. As soon as you add a shit load of processing and plastic and other stuff it's not "wood" anymore than gasoline is a dead dinosaur. As for things like plywood that use glue for the laminations...glue is the most expensive and important part of the product. Not the wood so much. Replacing steel? I don't…

Not to mention all that carbon released when the wood decomposes - no ?

By released I assume you mean into the air? I think only if it's burned?

Re: Hardened wood as a renewable alternative to steel and plastic

#76

Post by account_b »

bhhaskin wrote: post #32
vimy wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We need to mine in space.

This. If we want to continue human progress then space is really the only option.

No, that's still ignorant of ecological processes, I think. We need to adapt culturally/economically.

What do you think happens, if we continue as we do, but assume "infinte" ressourses? You would still exhaust regenerative/reparative capacities, accumulate chemical byproducts and waste - shift balances. See nitrification of water bodies.

The core problem is our lazyness to recapture uncompressed former dense resources; to operate closed cycle.

And well, I have my doubts we can establish the extend of space exploitation to meet our current e.g. global phosphorus needs within the next 30 years. Is phosphate rock even plenty around in asteroids?

Re: Hardened wood as a renewable alternative to steel and plastic

#77

Post by noselasd »

EGreg wrote: post #69
canadian_tired wrote: post #64

Wood is renewable when you can grow it, cut it up into useful shapes, then at the end of its useful life, compost it. As soon as you add a shit load of processing and plastic and other stuff it's not "wood" anymore than gasoline is a dead dinosaur. As for things like plywood that use glue for the laminations...glue is the most expensive and important part of the product. Not the wood so much. Replacing steel? I don't…

Not to mention all that carbon released when the wood decomposes - no ?

It was captured from the air when the wood was grown though - so as long as you maintain the forrest you took the wood from it works out.

Re: Hardened wood as a renewable alternative to steel and plastic

#78

Post by entropicgravity »

canadian_tired wrote: post #64

Wood is renewable when you can grow it, cut it up into useful shapes, then at the end of its useful life, compost it. As soon as you add a shit load of processing and plastic and other stuff it's not "wood" anymore than gasoline is a dead dinosaur. As for things like plywood that use glue for the laminations...glue is the most expensive and important part of the product. Not the wood so much. Replacing steel? I don't…

In addition progress making steel with a lot less CO2, by using hydrogen (and other techniques) instead of coal has come a long way. This isn't just pie in the sky, the world's second largest steel maker plans to reduce CO2 by 30% before 2030. [1] And of course steel is eminently recyclable. I'm not against wood but steel has some good long term attributes as well.

[1]https://corporate.arcelormittal.com/sustainability/climate-a...

Re: Hardened wood as a renewable alternative to steel and plastic

#79

Post by spfzero »

the_other wrote: post #31
ethbr0 wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A blocker to deployment would be getting building codes updated to permit use. From memory, wood was only approved for 3 story or less structures in most of the US. And building codes tend to be updated extremely slowly and conservatively.

When Greta talks to the public sphere about government failing its climate responsibility, this is the kind of stuff she’s talking about. It’s easy to assume we “just” need subsidies and incentives (or the ending of same) for “green” solutions, but the problem is much larger than that. We need to be operating “sustainably” at every level, in between departments, across legislation. If regulation is blocking us, get i…

Shouldn't we make sure it's a good idea first?
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