Gov Parson pushes to prosecute reporter who found security flaw in state site • Hacker News Board

Re: Gov Parson pushes to prosecute reporter who found security flaw in state site

#201

Post by vkou » Thu, Oct 21, 2021, 5:32 PM UTC

pianoben wrote: post #38

Acutulus wrote: post #7

I find the article title kind of curious, given that it states Parson has "doubled down" which suggests that the video the article references is an active effort on Parson's part. It then goes on to state that the video was produced by a PAC Parson created but doesn't give direct input to. Comes off as unnecessarily inflammatory to me I suppose. Having said that, this situation in particular really tests my willingne…

The background with Parson is that he is overtly hostile to the "blue" cities of St. Louis and Kansas City, and favors the more rural parts of the state. He has an especially hostile relationship with the press in those cities. It doesn't surprise me that he'd want to make hay with this - he can promote himself, damage his political enemies, and look tough to his base, which (generally speaking) doesn't consist of pr…

I'm not saying you are wrong in this particular case (As I know nothing about the particulars of vaccine distribution in your state), but this has been the case across the entire country, red and blue. At a rough approximation, vaccines were distributed more or less equally across rural and urban areas, but due to high demand in urban areas, there were long wait lists in them.

Re: Gov Parson pushes to prosecute reporter who found security flaw in state site

#202

Post by 8note » Thu, Oct 21, 2021, 5:32 PM UTC

anovikov wrote: post #81

drzaiusapelord wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can find a competent plumber trivially. Hiring white collar jobs are much harder, especially specialized tech work. I think the anti-college popularity ties directly to the incredible cost of it in the USA, not that its necessarily a bad thing.

But incredible cost is because of the inflated demand. Too many people go to college who don't need it. Reduce demand by, pun intended, educating people that they don't need college unless they can make it to the top, and prices will fall.

Needing it is defined by employers considering them as base qualifications

Re: Gov Parson pushes to prosecute reporter who found security flaw in state site

#203

Post by cdcarter » Thu, Oct 21, 2021, 5:33 PM UTC

logifail wrote: post #120

otterley wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I largely agree with the sentiment that we need more plumbers than liberal arts graduates. One answer, though, is "why not be both?" Post-secondary education, regardless of the specific major a student chooses, does provide a significant benefit to society: especially in the early years, it teaches students how to think critically. Perhaps this skill could be taught earlier during secondary education, but at least in…

> Post-secondary education, regardless of the specific major a student chooses, does provide a significant benefit to society: especially in the early years, it teaches students how to think critically . (My highlight) I wish that were true, but it isn't always the case. My counter-example is my ex-colleague who started her science PhD at the same time as me in the same research group as me waaaay back in the late 19…

I'm not sure how this is a counter-example of students being taught to think critically. Are you saying you did not think critically in your thesis but passed anyway?

Re: Gov Parson pushes to prosecute reporter who found security flaw in state site

#204

Post by pugets » Thu, Oct 21, 2021, 5:33 PM UTC

charonn0 wrote: post #134

sillysaurusx wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please don't make this a partisan issue. I live in Missouri. I've voted for Republicans in the past. You're alienating people like me from being on your side. It doesn't matter that you're probably right. It comes across as you posting this to make yourself feel good, and holy moly the sense of superiority from your camp needs a chill pill. Parson is evil. I'll be doing my duty as a citizen and trying to vote him out…

> You're alienating people like me from being on your side. On one side are the computer scientists and engineers who understand the nature of the problem. On the other side are ignorant and/or dishonest actors out to avoid being embarrassed. It's all on you if you pick the wrong one out of loyalty to a political party.

It's okay for people to vote D on some issues and R on some other issues. That's pretty much an inevitability for any person with diverse views in a two-party system.

Besides, at the end of the day, how different are the two sides? One party wants to prosecute a reporter who found a site vulnerability, and the other party wants to prosecute the man who exposed the world to the dragnet surveillance being conducted by the NSA.

Re: Gov Parson pushes to prosecute reporter who found security flaw in state site

#205

Post by chacham15 » Thu, Oct 21, 2021, 5:33 PM UTC

NationalPark wrote: post #127

sillysaurusx wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please don't make this a partisan issue. I live in Missouri. I've voted for Republicans in the past. You're alienating people like me from being on your side. It doesn't matter that you're probably right. It comes across as you posting this to make yourself feel good, and holy moly the sense of superiority from your camp needs a chill pill. Parson is evil. I'll be doing my duty as a citizen and trying to vote him out…

Do you expect people to pretend the trend isn't happening in order to comfort you? What does it say about your own values that they are so loosely held that you'd sacrifice them out of contempt like this?

> Do you expect people to pretend the trend isn't happening in order to comfort you?

This is a strawman. The parent was saying that in order to have an effect and convince people, you shouldnt alienate them. You can do this without lying or ignoring things that are happening. In fact, the people you're most likely able to convince are people in the middle and by alienating them you're actually causing the trend that you're denouncing.

> What does it say about your own values that they are so loosely held that you'd sacrifice them out of contempt like this?

This is just a straight ad hominem. I thought we were supposed to be above these sorts of things on hn.

Re: Gov Parson pushes to prosecute reporter who found security flaw in state site

#206

Post by Someone1234 » Thu, Oct 21, 2021, 5:34 PM UTC

tshaddox wrote: post #176

Someone1234 wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who gets to set the test? This is a well-intentioned but very wrong-headed idea. History is littered with examples of how these things are abused. It is up to voters to evaluate their chosen candidates for their qualities and qualifications for the job. The biggest problem right now is that too many vote on party lines instead of for candidates based on their qualities.

There are already requirements for most elected officials. Age, citizenship, and residency requirements are common. Thus the slippery slope argument "if we have any requirements at all that's a slippery slope to having arbitrarily bad requirements" already applies equally to the current situation as it would to any proposal to change the requirements.

> Thus the slippery slope argument

That wasn't an argument I made though. I asked:

> Who gets to set the test?

Which gets to the core of the point. The current requirements are fixed in legal stone and nobody gets to alter them. They aren't being [ab]used for political advantage.

People on here are proposing arbitrary ability tests that [someone] gets to create and alter using [some] undefined methodology.

You combine that with the history of ability-based testing (which, incidentally none of the existing requirements are) and it leaves a bad taste in a lot of people's mouths.

Re: Gov Parson pushes to prosecute reporter who found security flaw in state site

#207

Post by glenstein » Thu, Oct 21, 2021, 5:34 PM UTC

sillysaurusx wrote: post #99

abvdasker wrote: post #47

I'll risk making this a partisan issue and say the anti-intellectual and anti-science bent seems increasingly prevalent among Republicans like Mike Parson and their constituencies. One of the most shocking statistics I've seen recently is the Pew poll which shows that in the space of 2 years Republican attitudes about higher education saw a 20-point swing such that that most Republican voters now believe college is n…

Please don't make this a partisan issue. I live in Missouri. I've voted for Republicans in the past. You're alienating people like me from being on your side. It doesn't matter that you're probably right. It comes across as you posting this to make yourself feel good, and holy moly the sense of superiority from your camp needs a chill pill. Parson is evil. I'll be doing my duty as a citizen and trying to vote him out…

>You're alienating people like me from being on your side.

You're alienating yourself by following reactionary impulses in response to true statements.

I'm also honesty not sure how true this theory of reaction is generally. I'm sure it's true for some, but in many cases it functions as a rhetorical strategy to put people on the defensive who are making legitimate criticisms.

>But none of this was anti-science, nor did it have anything to do with COVID, and you've brought up both.

It's anti-intellectual, and therefore a pertinent comparison, and they used the term anti intellectual and covered all the necessary bases. The cultural and social forces driving both are the same, and here, again, I feel like saying "don't talk about this because it alienates me" is just a rhetorical strategy to put people on the defensive without addressing the merits of what they are saying.

Re: Gov Parson pushes to prosecute reporter who found security flaw in state site

#208

Post by ribosometronome » Thu, Oct 21, 2021, 5:34 PM UTC

throwaway0a5e wrote: post #186

charonn0 wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You're alienating people like me from being on your side. On one side are the computer scientists and engineers who understand the nature of the problem. On the other side are ignorant and/or dishonest actors out to avoid being embarrassed. It's all on you if you pick the wrong one out of loyalty to a political party.

>On one side are the computer scientists and engineers who understand the nature of the problem There are a hell of a lot of computer scientists and engineers who vote republican, certainty not a majority but definitely a large enough minority you can't discount them. They just don't broadcast it for reasons that should be obvious to anyone reading these comments.

They're embarrassed to be seen supporting candidates that are so transparently anti-science, anti-education and anti-reason?

Re: Gov Parson pushes to prosecute reporter who found security flaw in state site

#209

Post by mLuby » Thu, Oct 21, 2021, 5:35 PM UTC

Bhilai wrote: post #3

Here is a potentially dumb idea: Before someone can declare candidacy for a public office, they should pass an exam that tests them on general and basic knowledge on a wide variety of topics that proves that the person has some level of general awareness of tech that is so ubiquitous.

Rulers can't be an expert in all the domains they oversee. Thus the test you speak of should be whether they can build a team of experts and harness that collective expertise to make good* decisions.

Alternatively you could pick the person who's decisions have most often turned out to be good* ones, and hope that they continue making good* decisions.

* For whatever you think is good.

Re: Gov Parson pushes to prosecute reporter who found security flaw in state site

#210

Post by tfehring » Thu, Oct 21, 2021, 5:35 PM UTC

anovikov wrote: post #62

abvdasker wrote: post #47

I'll risk making this a partisan issue and say the anti-intellectual and anti-science bent seems increasingly prevalent among Republicans like Mike Parson and their constituencies. One of the most shocking statistics I've seen recently is the Pew poll which shows that in the space of 2 years Republican attitudes about higher education saw a 20-point swing such that that most Republican voters now believe college is n…

I consider myself a liberal, and i agree with the point that college is net detrimental to society. It makes people waste their best years, teaches them mainly, useless stuff, barely breaks even in terms of lifetime earnings, and makes people bitter because they feel they are not valued by society the way they believe they should. This world needs a lot more new plumbers than new liberal arts majors. It is the societ…

> makes people waste their best years

What do you mean "waste"? Just that they're building career capital instead of directly earning money? You've got your whole life to work, spending that time learning, meeting new people, and trying new things seems way less "wasteful" than just starting your career 4 years sooner. Plus it gives you time to figure out what you want to do, most 18-year-olds aren't really equipped to decide what they'll want to be doing when they're 50 and the value of starting a career sooner is greatly diminished if you just end up switching careers anyway.

> teaches them mainly, useless stuff

Meh, most knowledge is useless, but it's not always easy to determine which knowledge will be useful in advance. I thought my linguistics class was useless (though interesting) at the time, years later I went into data science, turns out linguistics is pretty important for NLP. Also, I think learning for the sake of learning is a Good Thing, even given that most knowledge is useless.

> barely breaks even in terms of lifetime earnings

Got a source for that? Cause last I checked, holders of even most "useless" degrees out-earn those with just a high school diploma by something like $15k/year, making them well worth it financially unless you pay the sticker price for a private or out-of-state school. For better or worse, there are a ton of decent jobs in the US that just require any college degree.

> and makes people bitter because they feel they are not valued by society the way they believe they should

I haven't seen that at all. I know people who are bitter because they have a ton of student debt and are struggling to pay it off, but I don't know anyone who expects to be put on a pedestal because they have a college degree, if anything they're bitter at their colleges and/or their high school guidance counselors. Also, those people are outliers in terms of their debt levels, the average new college graduate (among those who take out student loans) earns ~$55k and leaves with ~$30k in debt, which is very manageable almost everywhere in the US and probably puts them at a higher income (though with less wealth) than their peers who started plumbing apprenticeships at 18.