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Hardened wood as a renewable alternative to steel and plastic

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41–50 of 282 posts

Re: Hardened wood as a renewable alternative to steel and plastic

#41
The graph in that composite diagram is really bothering me.

Their "hardened wood" product is 23 times harder than "natural" basswood. When dried, basswood (aka lime) is an extremely soft hardwood. It's very popular with novice turners and hand carvers. When green (natural?) you can carve it with a stone.

Species matters. Lignum vitae is 20 times harder than basswood.

Re: Hardened wood as a renewable alternative to steel and plastic

#42
post #2

Can't read the article. How energy efficient and environmentally friendly is the hardening process compared to making steel? And is it a "in 20 years" thing again, like all new battery tech?

Not sure if this is exactly the same but cross laminated timber (CLT) is already being used for constructing all kinds of buildings. Executive summary of its qualities: - Stronger and lighter than concrete. Think thinner floors and walls but with similar strength and load-bearing capability; less tonnes of material to move around. That alone is a big advantage. - Several buildings across the world already exist; more…

also, CLT can be combined with steel to create stronger load-bearing members, while also being more aesthetically pleasing, effectively replacing concrete for class A construction of tall buildings.

Re: Hardened wood as a renewable alternative to steel and plastic

#43

I wonder how fire resistant hardened wood is. I can imagine cities like Chicago having a hard time to use wood in commercial buildings with history launch as "The Great Chicago Fire"[0] [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Chicago_Fire

I think wood can be quite fire resistant even with traditional modifications like charring. And it may retain structural integrity better/longer than steel. I think steel can become an enemy in a fire quite abruptly.

Re: Hardened wood as a renewable alternative to steel and plastic

#44

The graph in that composite diagram is really bothering me. Their "hardened wood" product is 23 times harder than "natural" basswood. When dried, basswood (aka lime) is an extremely soft hardwood. It's very popular with novice turners and hand carvers. When green (natural?) you can carve it with a stone. Species matters. Lignum vitae is 20 times harder than basswood.

Species matters, but so does availability. Lignum vitae is an endangered species, so it's not really a renewable alternative at the scale humanity requires.

Re: Hardened wood as a renewable alternative to steel and plastic

#45
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure if this is exactly the same but cross laminated timber (CLT) is already being used for constructing all kinds of buildings. Executive summary of its qualities: - Stronger and lighter than concrete. Think thinner floors and walls but with similar strength and load-bearing capability; less tonnes of material to move around. That alone is a big advantage. - Several buildings across the world already exist; more…

A blocker to deployment would be getting building codes updated to permit use. From memory, wood was only approved for 3 story or less structures in most of the US. And building codes tend to be updated extremely slowly and conservatively.

Bureaucracy like that is always a short term obstacle. US building codes are not much of a quality or technical challenge though if you consider that Tokyo has typhoons and earthquakes and is planning a 350m skyscraper with CLT. I'd say anything suitable for that, ought to be acceptable for construction in most of the US.

Compared to the damage that hurricanes do in the US to flimsy plywood buildings, it will probably more than be able to compete with that. Building standards are perhaps slow to change but not necessarily very advanced in the US. But you are right that this type of change is slow to implement.

Re: Hardened wood as a renewable alternative to steel and plastic

#46
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A blocker to deployment would be getting building codes updated to permit use. From memory, wood was only approved for 3 story or less structures in most of the US. And building codes tend to be updated extremely slowly and conservatively.

from what i remember, it’s up to 6 stories in some parts of the country. i think it’s other aspects of the zoning and/or building code that tends to limit it to 3 stories—often podium style, with a concrete bunker foundation for cars with 3 stick-built stories on top. for the record, i dislike this style because it reserves the most valuable square footage—the ground floor—to cars. the cars should go underground, all…

This is (was?) the largest mass timber structure in the US. I think it is 7 stories.

https://structurecraft.com/projects/t3-minneapolis

Re: Hardened wood as a renewable alternative to steel and plastic

#47

As far as I know, the Earth's surface cannot meet humanity's current need for hydrocarbons, polymers or building materials. Biomass production is limited by sun energy and most importantly phosphorus and nitrogen cycles. Even hundred of years ago, people were already exhausting regenerative capacities and back then there were only around half a billion humans living on all this planet. Petrol chemistry and mineral ex…

->We need to cut down.

A potential alternative survival strategy is to develop your country as fast as possible. Develop whatever technology will be necessary to win a potential future war fought over the scarcest resources. This development oriented strategy will probably consume a lot of resources, but survival is worth taking risks for.

Re: Hardened wood as a renewable alternative to steel and plastic

#48
post #12

I've been intrigued for a while about various modified wood technologies (eg hardened wood, transparent wood), but I'm always disappointed because it usually ends up just being a minor support structure for a very non-wood material (generally epoxy). This one shows a compression step, so maybe it's different, but I'd really like more info on whether this is actually renewable or sustainable in any interesting sense.…

Curious about your opinion on bamboo products. I assume you're referring to modern bamboo desks, shelves, and other items that are made from Chinese bamboo and made in China. They typically slice the bamboo grass pieces into ~8 sections, then use planing machines to create planks※. These are then pressed and glued together to make products. These products are then shipped overseas using the same methods as other prod…

The usual complaint I see against bamboo products is that they use hard bamboo that grows like trees, but promote a sustainable image based on the idea of soft bamboo that grows like grass. I haven't heard it's less sustainable than wood, just not any more sustainable.

Re: Hardened wood as a renewable alternative to steel and plastic

#49
post #26
post #16

I’ve seen this before. It starts getting curious at the “chemical treatment” step.

They're taking the lignite out of the cellulose, and then compressing the resulting soft mesh into a harder material. A few years ago, "transparent wood" was a thing. That was taking out the lignite, and putting some transparent plastic in. Not clear what's special about their compression step.

The heated compression step allows the cellulose to form hydrogen bonds with other cellulose fibers, which strengthens the wood and makes the epoxy redundant.

Re: Hardened wood as a renewable alternative to steel and plastic

#50
post #12

I've been intrigued for a while about various modified wood technologies (eg hardened wood, transparent wood), but I'm always disappointed because it usually ends up just being a minor support structure for a very non-wood material (generally epoxy). This one shows a compression step, so maybe it's different, but I'd really like more info on whether this is actually renewable or sustainable in any interesting sense.…

Reminds me of the one video I saw of this man spraying different things with some sort of polymer that was virtually unbreakable. He'd spray a cinderblock wall and then hit it with a sledgehammer. The wall would break, but the polymer would hold... so yay?

That said, It seems like the sort of thing you'd want to spray asphalt shingles with.

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