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Roku tells customers it is unable to strike a deal with YouTube

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Re: Roku tells customers it is unable to strike a deal with YouTube

#121

Post by datavirtue »

unethical_ban wrote: post #78
dtjb wrote: post #18

I get this situation is different since YouTube is looking for concessions on functionality, but I find it hard to defend Roku with their triple-dipping scheme. They charge for the device (I paid over $100 for my 4k HDR box), then they display massive ads covering 50% of the screen, then they want a cut of revenue from content providers as well. Roku burned through a lot of goodwill with their customers during the HB…

I didn't know they charged money from app creators to be hosted. I thought they just made their money on hardware! All roku had to do was build some quality hardware and a decent streaming UI. The only thing that would take money to maintain from a server perspective should be the update servers and software servers. I saw them as one of the few dedicated streaming devices (next to Shield) for being "provider neutral…

OK. So they are supposed to make money selling one of the most unprofitable commodities on earth...electronic hardware? The only company pulling that off is Apple...and probably just on the iPhone.

I paid $400 for a huge TCL TV. It probably cost $100 just to move it around the globe. There is no money for development or the platform/service in that price.

Re: Roku tells customers it is unable to strike a deal with YouTube

#122

Post by nitrogen »

bgorman wrote: post #114
pkulak wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't say this for everyone, but a tech consumer has to know that just over $100 does not cover the cost of the hardware. It's got to come from somewhere else. I'm usually not much of an Apple fan, but I just switched to the Apple TV and am really liking it. It certainly seems like charging 2x the price for the hardware removes a lot of the incentive to do all the scammy stuff Ruku is involved in; though I guess I…

100 dollars certainly covers the cost of the hardware. These streaming devices use commodity chips and run Linux. This isn’t a crazy R&D project. The only real value-add from Roku is the software.

Yeah, embedded hardware is really cheap at scale, even with 4K video decoding.

Re: Roku tells customers it is unable to strike a deal with YouTube

#123

Post by jfrunyon »

antasvara wrote: post #82
echelon wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is anticompetitive. Do me a favor. Look up your representative and call or email them. https://www.house.gov/representatives/find-your-representati... Tell them Google is playing evil games with their empire and it's impacting hardware you purchased. Suggest a breakup of Google and YouTube.

I mean, saying it impacts hardware you purchased is a stretch. You can just as easily plug in an Android TV box, or an Amazon fire stick, or any number of other products with different interfaces. Google doesn't "control" the hardware you own, Roku does. Nobody forces people to buy a TV with Roku preinstalled; anyone who did this has consented to having their hardware limited/controlled by Roku. This isn't to absolve…

Huh? Roku is "hardware you purchased". Sure, you could go out and purchase something else to replace it. I'm not sure why you think that means it doesn't impact the hardware you already have.

Re: Roku tells customers it is unable to strike a deal with YouTube

#124

Post by samtheprogram »

jeffbee wrote: post #89
judge2020 wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> From Roku's blog post, it seems that Google wants a dedicated area in the global search for YouTube results. For example, If you search for "Last Week Tonight", Google wants a YouTube results row showing clips on their service above results from other content platforms like HBO Max. Basically, Google wants to have the placement that search ads get on their platform on Roku. Previous discussions[0] suggested that it…

LG WebOS has a YouTube TV app and the search button in the remote takes you to the global search function. This doesn’t seem to cause any friction between google and LG. Because YouTube TV seems to work everywhere but on roku I tend to blame roku here.

Or LG WebOS is not a big enough market for Google to care about the experience to put their foot down, at that point they’d rather be on the device (and controlling other devices where it counts).

This is all hearsay though and it’s unclear if Google even made such demands to Roku.

Re: Roku tells customers it is unable to strike a deal with YouTube

#126

Post by devrand »

echelon wrote: post #38
kumarvvr wrote: post #12

From the original blog of Roku "First, Google continues to interfere with Roku’s independent search results, requiring that we preference YouTube over other content providers" "Second, Google discriminates against Roku by demanding search, voice, and data features that they do not insist on from other streaming platforms." I would be much more comfortable if the headline says, "Google made unreasonable demands on Rok…

This is anticompetitive. Do me a favor. Look up your representative and call or email them. https://www.house.gov/representatives/find-your-representati... Tell them Google is playing evil games with their empire and it's impacting hardware you purchased. Suggest a breakup of Google and YouTube.

> Tell them Google is playing evil games with their empire and it's impacting hardware you purchased. Suggest a breakup of Google and YouTube.

Why would a breakup make a difference here? AFAICT the entire deal is limited to YouTube. A breakup would matter if other parts of Google were involved, for example, if Google were threatening to remove Roku from search/ads if they couldn't strike a deal with YouTube. That would be anticompetitive.

This particular deal doesn't come off as anticompetitive to me. It's basically the same problem that Cable TV has with carriage fees and networks, just for streaming services/devices.

Edit: to clarify I don't see this deal as anticompetitive in the monopolistic sense. i.e. I don't see how breaking up Google/YouTube would solve anticompetitive-ness of the deal.

Re: Roku tells customers it is unable to strike a deal with YouTube

#128

Post by jfrunyon »

whoknowswhat11 wrote: post #100

Funny seeing all the Roku love here. What I've observed when comparing Roku to other devices. I buy my apple TV -> I get basically no ads, they don't seem to charge that much to allow folks like youtube tv to have an app on the platform Roku -> I buy and own my device. They seem to sell advertising all over the device I paid for. They seem to be charging companies for buttons and/or to be able to put an app on the ro…

Yeah, they're actually a pretty crap offering. Between the app buttons on the remote (which serve only a single purpose: interrupting whatever we're watching when my toddler decides to grab the remote and press one of the app buttons), the absolutely AWFUL wifi range (had to get a new AP just for it, even though every other device - in the same room as the Roku but further from the AP - worked fine: iPhone, OnePlus N100, Google Home Mini, Thinkpad, Dell), and the fact that half of the apps on it seem like they would require twice as much processing power as it has to actually be useable...

Re: Roku tells customers it is unable to strike a deal with YouTube

#129

Post by jfrunyon »

tyingq wrote: post #104

I just like the irony that Google is unhappy with the rules of a captive app store, how they are allowed to update, how their app works with the higher level search they don't control, etc.

I'm not sure where the irony is, since Google doesn't have a captive app store, unlike say Apple.

Re: Roku tells customers it is unable to strike a deal with YouTube

#130

Post by jfrunyon »

tehwebguy wrote: post #92

Roku should drop the API and just scrape YouTube from the client side. What's Google going to do, block everyone's home IP?

Change their layout so the scraper stops working?

Block the useragent?

Block other identifiable parameters of Roku's networking stack or HTTP stack?

Sue them?

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