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California tried to save the nation from tax filing, then Intuit stepped in

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Re: California tried to save the nation from tax filing, then Intuit stepped in

#171

Post by eropple »

iammisc wrote: post #124
tromp wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why assign all the blame to Intuit? > They persuaded the Internal Revenue Service for more than a decade to pledge in writing not to adopt California’s innovation or develop any other offerings that threatened their business model. I think the IRS deserves much of the blame for yielding to Intuit's persuasion. Every American should be upset with both Intuit and the IRS.

I'm just upset with the IRS. The IRS officers hold a position of public trust. Intuit does not.

There is a school of thought, and I tend to agree with it, that "a position of public trust" is exactly and specifically what is granted to a corporation by granting it its special, fictive-person, liability-shielding status. The veneration of "corporations as psychopaths" is more of a deification of the current state, not an aspirational one. It doesn't have to be that way, and so we absolutely can fault Intuit for acting against that public trust. Intuit has responsibilities to the society that grants it its charter, and that includes not peeing in the public pool.

(That school of thought, yeah, puts most companies in a real bad light. And? Well? Yes. They have earned it.)

Re: California tried to save the nation from tax filing, then Intuit stepped in

#172

Post by jjcon »

thebigman433 wrote: post #169
pydry wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The left doesnt really have any power in the US. What passes for the left (the socially liberal corporate elites that run most of the democratic party) are pretty much just as invested in protecting the rentiers as the right wing. Rentier money is structurally geared towards destroying any populist politicians who threaten their rents. It was a fluke that AOC won given her Democratic opponent (when she was unknown) o…

This is so important and I think a lot of people miss it. The "left" that has power in the US (establishment dems) barely qualify as being left at all. They are very much invested in protecting power and wealth. The only "left" that would push against the rentiers are people who will almost never see power. However, I wouldnt say AOC winning is a "fluke". Its definitely the exception, but progressives have been able…

> The "left" that has power in the US (establishment dems) barely qualify as being left at all

So when the left does something you dont like, they must not be left? Smells of no true scottsman to me.

Re: California tried to save the nation from tax filing, then Intuit stepped in

#173

Post by terr-dav »

missinfo wrote: post #95
junon wrote: post #3

Intuit is such an evil company. Now that I've moved to Germany, I know what it feels like not to have to file every year (I still have to for the US but it's trivial now due to FIEC). There's nobody hounding you here, no stress regarding your taxes unless you're filing for a return or have extenuating circumstances, and even then there's a government-provided online portal for direct communication with the Finanzamt…

"They persuaded the Internal Revenue Service for more than a decade..." "The tax preparation industry guided Washington down a different path." Be even more upset with the IRS and politicians. They are literally responsible for this. They make the laws. Don't let them shift blame. They should have told Intuit to pound sand. This is like a kid that gets caught doing something bad and blames their friends. They told me…

Why be mad at either party? They are both making rational choices given their circumstances.

I don't expect politicians to act on principles more than anyone else. They are just trying to keep their jobs, and they functionally depend corporate financing to do this, so they will naturally go to bat for the same people.

Intuit is a profit-making machine with side-effects that include creating a tax-filing product. The people running it are acting rationally to keep their jobs too.

This situation is a predictable outcome given the way the system works, and is one example of the failings and inefficiencies of the system to serve the common good.

Re: California tried to save the nation from tax filing, then Intuit stepped in

#174

Post by ulfw »

mmmBacon wrote: post #167
tromp wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why assign all the blame to Intuit? > They persuaded the Internal Revenue Service for more than a decade to pledge in writing not to adopt California’s innovation or develop any other offerings that threatened their business model. I think the IRS deserves much of the blame for yielding to Intuit's persuasion. Every American should be upset with both Intuit and the IRS.

This isn’t the fault of the IRS. The IRS can only do what Congress allows them to do. It’s the fault of Congress. In fact the 2 key Congresswomen responsible are Zoe Lofgren and Anna Eshoo. I currently live in Eshoo’s district but I can tell you she is completely unresponsive to you if you don’t live in Atherton or Palo Alto. I have never seen her campaign once. Her district is sprawling and includes 3 counties in th…

Geez. She is still there? I remember writing her 16 years ago when I was at Stanford and had an issue. Of course neither she (nor her office) ever bothered to respond. Wow.

Re: California tried to save the nation from tax filing, then Intuit stepped in

#175

Post by ZoomerCretin »

landemva wrote: post #150
Clubber wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>What (the left) needs to do is clear out rents. Unfortunately in the US the rent seekers have an easy hack to make sure that never happens: lobbying. The system will never change unless we vote out the current politicians, and then maybe it will change. We might have to clear out most, ideally all of the applicable congress every election cycle for a few years before we see any results. As long as we keep voting in…

The federal system in regards to lobbying would change if we followed the constitution as written to allow House of Representatives to grow with census population count. And restore the not direct election of Senators. Then remove federal personal income tax. For icing on the cake, shut down the 3rd central bank known as 'Federal Reserve'. This would require a nationwide general strike to show the people are serious.…

>The federal system in regards to lobbying would change if we followed the constitution as written to allow House of Representatives to grow with census population count.

Sounds good.

>And restore the not direct election of Senators. Then remove federal personal income tax. For icing on the cake, shut down the 3rd central bank known as 'Federal Reserve'.

I’m curious to know how any of these policies would be beneficial.

Re: California tried to save the nation from tax filing, then Intuit stepped in

#176

Post by oblio »

dionidium wrote: post #151
psychometry wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah let's run the country like Alabama instead. They're doing well! /s

Alabama has a higher GDP per capita than Germany, Belgium, Israel, France, Japan, the U.K. and...I could go on. Alabama is doing well. We live in such an enormously wealthy country that it only looks bad by comparison. But not by comparison to basically anywhere else on Earth. Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_between_U.S._states...

GDP is, unfortunately, a flawed metric. Or at least an incomplete one.

I greatly doubt the average German, Belgian, Japanese, etc. would want to live in Alabama :-)

Edit:

Another flawed metric, but probably closer to the truth, tells a slightly different story: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_and_territ...

Alabama has roughly the same HDI as Cyprus. Cyprus is a nice place, but it's quite a bit behind the countries on your list.

If we try to use the inequality adjusted HDI (which depending on how you look at it, might get us closer to the real situation - or might not), things look even worse: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_inequalit...

I can't find the number of Alabama, but considering that it's generally in one of the last places in the US, I can't imagine it being higher than the US average, so I wouldn't be shocked to see it somewhere around Croatia's level.

Re: California tried to save the nation from tax filing, then Intuit stepped in

#177

Post by iammisc »

eropple wrote: post #171
iammisc wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm just upset with the IRS. The IRS officers hold a position of public trust. Intuit does not.

There is a school of thought, and I tend to agree with it, that "a position of public trust" is exactly and specifically what is granted to a corporation by granting it its special, fictive-person, liability-shielding status. The veneration of "corporations as psychopaths" is more of a deification of the current state, not an aspirational one. It doesn't have to be that way, and so we absolutely can fault Intuit for…

> granted to a corporation by granting it its special, fictive-person, liability-shielding status.

There is no such thing. This is such a silly argument made by people who have no understanding of corporate liability laws.

Incorporating doesn't suddenly shield you from liability. If you were negligent or intended harm, you will be held personally liable. If you're a shareholder and knew what was going on, you will also be held liable. The issue is not incorporation, it's a government too timid to enforce the law.

Re: California tried to save the nation from tax filing, then Intuit stepped in

#178

Post by refurb »

nicoffeine wrote: post #116
golemotron wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The nation is pretty tired of California and NY trying to save it.

The nation is dependent on the money that California and NY put in to the federal tax system. You're welcome. "A 2017 study by the Rockefeller Institute of Government found that traditional blue states like Connecticut ($15,643), Massachusetts ($13,582), New Jersey ($13,137), New York ($12,820), and California ($10,510), contributed significantly more in federal taxes, per citizen, than traditional red states like Mi…

I mean red states are more rural which alone would account for more subsidies.

But regardless, seems like you’re all for redistribution of wealth unless it goes to the political “undesirable”?

You just made a great argument against redistribution - it’s too fraught with politics.

Re: California tried to save the nation from tax filing, then Intuit stepped in

#179

Post by refurb »

oblio wrote: post #176
dionidium wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Alabama has a higher GDP per capita than Germany, Belgium, Israel, France, Japan, the U.K. and...I could go on. Alabama is doing well. We live in such an enormously wealthy country that it only looks bad by comparison. But not by comparison to basically anywhere else on Earth. Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_between_U.S._states...

GDP is, unfortunately, a flawed metric. Or at least an incomplete one. I greatly doubt the average German, Belgian, Japanese, etc. would want to live in Alabama :-) Edit: Another flawed metric, but probably closer to the truth, tells a slightly different story: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_and_territ... Alabama has roughly the same HDI as Cyprus. Cyprus is a nice place, but it's quite a bit behin…

You realized you just dismissed GDP per capita, a quantitative metric, as too “flawed”, then instead relied on HDI which entirely a made up metric based on subjective measures?

Re: California tried to save the nation from tax filing, then Intuit stepped in

#180

Post by RappingBoomer »

landemva wrote: post #150
Clubber wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>What (the left) needs to do is clear out rents. Unfortunately in the US the rent seekers have an easy hack to make sure that never happens: lobbying. The system will never change unless we vote out the current politicians, and then maybe it will change. We might have to clear out most, ideally all of the applicable congress every election cycle for a few years before we see any results. As long as we keep voting in…

The federal system in regards to lobbying would change if we followed the constitution as written to allow House of Representatives to grow with census population count. And restore the not direct election of Senators. Then remove federal personal income tax. For icing on the cake, shut down the 3rd central bank known as 'Federal Reserve'. This would require a nationwide general strike to show the people are serious.…

ok, but the media would stop any general strike using identity politics and or Dem vs GOP polarization already existing...divide et impera...divide and conquer...we are already quite divided...and therefore quite conquered...

as long as the media & its corporate advertisers can keep congress and the white house more or less evenly balanced between GOP and Dem over the long term, the people will never catch on that congress is bought and paid for...and 'throwing the bums out' has not worked yet...so it will not likely work in the future...

i don't see how any action by the people is going to effect any positive long term change...all we can do is wait for a collapse of the US dollar...as long as the dollar holds its value, the elites can still control everything and keep squeezing us dry...

it's gonna get worse before it gets better...maybe a lot worse..

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