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Daylight Savings Time (2020)

theory.stanford.edu

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Re: Daylight Savings Time (2020)

#31

Post by SamBam »

throw7 wrote: post #13

It's funny how the real reason we jump through time hoops escapes the conversation... the business class doesn't want to offer flexable work time for employees. The OP links to another site that says the science is in: "Wake up to the morning sun". Well, clearly, the answer is then to get rid of the stupid two shift shuffle each year (use standard time), get up to the sunrise, and go to fucking work. But NO, business…

In the end, wouldn't it result in much the same thing?

Assuming that we want everyone to know that we're waking up earlier in the summertime and closing up shop later, it would be preferable to coordinate this, right? We couldn't want all banks and shops and things closing at their own time. Or schools starting two minutes earlier every single day as we approach summer, to match up exactly with the sun, right?

So we could coordinate it all to happen in one big step. We'd say "Hey, from March 14th onward, all public schools are now going to be starting at 7:30 AM instead of 8:30 AM, and banks will open at 8:00 AM, and post offices will close at 4:00 PM.

And then we could so the same thing in the Fall, backwards.

But then, with nothing forcing private businesses and private schools from following this, wouldn't we get some horrible mismash? We'd have to call up every restaurant before making a reservation: hey, do you follow personal summertime hours? Banks would have their own closing hours, your older kid's public high school starts 1.5 hours before the private elementary school instead of a half hour, etc etc..

Re: Daylight Savings Time (2020)

#32

Post by mac01021 »

phailhaus wrote: post #20
fennecfoxen wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why not just use standard time, and shift schedules so that standard office hours are from 10am-6pm?

It is far more difficult to get thousands of businesses to coordinate on a fundamental cultural shift to a 10a-6p working day, than to just not change clocks back after switching to DST one last time.

People say that but I'm not sure it's true. As long as they all agree about what time it is at any given moment (which is something we're not proposing to change) why do their business hours even have to line up perfectly? And to the extend that they do need to, wouldn't they just sort of figure it out over the course of a week or a month and then not have to worry about at again from that point on?

Also, it would be a shift to an 8-4 working day, right, if we were going to keep the clocks on standard time year round?

Re: Daylight Savings Time (2020)

#33

Post by avgcorrection »

echelon wrote: post #24
throw7 wrote: post #13

It's funny how the real reason we jump through time hoops escapes the conversation... the business class doesn't want to offer flexable work time for employees. The OP links to another site that says the science is in: "Wake up to the morning sun". Well, clearly, the answer is then to get rid of the stupid two shift shuffle each year (use standard time), get up to the sunrise, and go to fucking work. But NO, business…

Even if you had flexible work hours, you'd have to start early to enjoy evening sun. That's not great. And your friends would have to have the same flexibility. Also, you'll have to use your flexibility to go to bed before them to wake up and enjoy your evening sun. Just move sunset later. It's a simple logistical option to apply uniformly that will maximize happiness.

> Even if you had flexible work hours, you'd have to start early to enjoy evening sun. That's not great.

Or you could wake up later in order to not screw up your circadian rhythm and in turn lower your risks of various ailments. It would be your own choice.

Re: Daylight Savings Time (2020)

#34

Post by kvgr »

justinlink wrote: post #16

We absolutely need Daylight Savings Time, you can argue about Standard Time not being necessary. Without DST, in my hometown, it will get dark at 6pm every day from Sept 23rd to March 4th. That's depressing for the 9-5ers with commutes. I wouldn't see the sun past 7pm outside of May 1st -> August 16th. If we're getting rid of DST, we need to switch the working day from 9-5 to 8-4 or 7-3.

Where i live the sunset will change next week from 17:44 to 16:42. absolute depression switch.

Re: Daylight Savings Time (2020)

#35

Post by ginko »

echelon wrote: post #27
Uehreka wrote: post #7

I care more about sunset than sunrise, so if people are proposing to get rid of DST instead of making permanent DST I will fight them tooth and nail. I get that it's subjective, but my subjective view is that having sunlight after work is more important, and I stand by that.

Hard agree. I think that most people would want to switch to permanent daylight saving time. This moves the sunset "later" in the day so that you get more sunlight after work. This is good for restaurants and leisure activities. Arguments against this typically come in a few flavors every time this subject comes up: > But the sun should be overhead at noon. This doesn't work geographically in practice anyway. It does…

>This doesn't work geographically in practice anyway.

It's still more correct than DST.

>And who wants to start work earlier?

You ARE starting work earlier with DST. That's the whole point. I sometimes wonder if there's some fundamental difference in understanding. To me the time in your watch is just a numeric value the _actual_ time of day is the location of the sun on the sky.

Re: Daylight Savings Time (2020)

#36

Post by paganel »

echelon wrote: post #27
Uehreka wrote: post #7

I care more about sunset than sunrise, so if people are proposing to get rid of DST instead of making permanent DST I will fight them tooth and nail. I get that it's subjective, but my subjective view is that having sunlight after work is more important, and I stand by that.

Hard agree. I think that most people would want to switch to permanent daylight saving time. This moves the sunset "later" in the day so that you get more sunlight after work. This is good for restaurants and leisure activities. Arguments against this typically come in a few flavors every time this subject comes up: > But the sun should be overhead at noon. This doesn't work geographically in practice anyway. It does…

Plus one hour less of sun-exposure for half a year (I mean, if we get rid of DST) will most certainly decrease the quantity of vitamin D absorbed by many, not sure if the powers that be factored that in their decision-making process.

Re: Daylight Savings Time (2020)

#37

Post by jxy »

Uehreka wrote: post #7

I care more about sunset than sunrise, so if people are proposing to get rid of DST instead of making permanent DST I will fight them tooth and nail. I get that it's subjective, but my subjective view is that having sunlight after work is more important, and I stand by that.

There will also be people who do not want to wake up to a pitch black sky and the coldest of the night.

Some people like to wake up at 5 AM to work. Some people like to wake up at 5 AM to play. Some people like to play and go to bed at 5 AM.

The source of the issue is the fixed 9 to 5 work hour instead of which hour we call 9 AM. So use your tooth and nail for whoever tells to work from 9 to 5 instead of the divided opinion of when exactly is 9 AM.

Re: Daylight Savings Time (2020)

#38

Post by lowercased »

Could we just move it 30 minutes in between the current 2 options and make that permanent? Honest question. No one will ever be happy with any choice, but if we split the difference, we'd still have some unhappy people, but one less thing to deal with 2x per year.

Re: Daylight Savings Time (2020)

#39

Post by avgcorrection »

Apreche wrote: post #5

We need daylight savings time. What we don't need is standard time.

Apparently you didn’t see this article (linked in the submission article) about the downsides of permanent DST:

https://herf.medium.com/why-standard-time-is-better-e586b500...

The human body “needs” DST like diabetes needs cookies.

Re: Daylight Savings Time (2020)

#40

Post by mac01021 »

kvgr wrote: post #34
justinlink wrote: post #16

We absolutely need Daylight Savings Time, you can argue about Standard Time not being necessary. Without DST, in my hometown, it will get dark at 6pm every day from Sept 23rd to March 4th. That's depressing for the 9-5ers with commutes. I wouldn't see the sun past 7pm outside of May 1st -> August 16th. If we're getting rid of DST, we need to switch the working day from 9-5 to 8-4 or 7-3.

Where i live the sunset will change next week from 17:44 to 16:42. absolute depression switch.

Can you just start waking up, going to work, going home, and going to sleep, an hour earlier (as measured by the new clock)?

Maybe your boss (if you have one) would let you do it.

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