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Online abuse: banning anonymous social media accounts is not the answer

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Re: Online abuse: banning anonymous social media accounts is not the answer

#81
post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The actual solution is to limit your social media use unless you want to be subject to abuse. I only have my Facebook for friends to contact me via messenger. As well as it's original purpose, commenting on a ( real life )friend's engagement photos with a nice congrats. The moment you get into stuff The Facebook wasn't designed for; like actually meeting new people, arguing with strangers, etc , then you run into pro…

I agree. If people lack the emotional intelligence to realise when it is time to stop a conversation ( in real life and on social media), then they are simply being infantile by asking government or tech companies to do it for you. The block/ignore buttons are there for a reason.

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Re: Online abuse: banning anonymous social media accounts is not the answer

#82
post #7

I don’t know… my Nextdoor group is pretty abusive to certain groups at times, and people post happily with their real life name and the rough area of where they live attached. Hate towards an individual person isn’t super common, but it happens. If this extrapolates, I can’t see removing anonymity doing much other than e.g. hurting LGBT groups online (imagine asking questions as a member of that group in a conservati…

from my experience it's more dangerous to ask a question as a conservative in a pro-LGBTQ+ group

Re: Online abuse: banning anonymous social media accounts is not the answer

#83
post #65
post #23

Anonymity is important because it allows you to have discussions purely based on the arguments and opinions, without the bias of who youre talking to. I often find myself having a wonderfully deep discussion with someone online, and when I eventually find out what they look like (etc), I often realize that they dont look as friendly, educated, etc as they are. Humans are really bad at this, and you will put people in…

I just discussed this with a bunch of my friends. If you're having a high level technical exchange with somebody that you don't know, then you find out that that other person is a female, you're really impressed, that a girl will be that good at this very technical topic. If, OTOH, you find out that that other person is a black guy (assuming you're white), you go through one of two reactions: If you're opinion of bla…

This seems to say a lot about you but not so much about others. You're saying your default opinion is that women wouldn't be good at a technical topic. And that you believe that white people only have two possible opinions coming in to an encounter with a black person: your opinion could be low, or you could be racist.

That's a very limited perspective.

Re: Online abuse: banning anonymous social media accounts is not the answer

#84
post #79
post #48

The simplest solution here is to require users to present government recognized credentials when signing up for accounts. Users can then create pseudonymous accounts that preserve some notion of anonymity, but when they become abusive the user can then be held accountable in the real world. Any solution here needs to be gated by the courts though, otherwise it would be ripe for abuse in and of itself through doxxing.

I heard a discussion on the radio where a lady was describing the potential use of a third party identity provider for all social media. This would be instead of the government. If I understood it correctly, the third party would hold your ID etc, and would vouch for you on signup to services. Users would be anonymous/pseudonymous until a warrant was acquired by the police. A third party would be better IMO than the…

I don't think having a third party instead of government control would be any better because the Snowden leaks showed us that the intelligence agencies will simply secretly co-opt the service to their own ends.

Re: Online abuse: banning anonymous social media accounts is not the answer

#85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I can’t see removing anonymity doing much other than e.g. hurting LGBT groups online (imagine asking questions as a member of that group in a conservative community and forced to use your real name) Consider that this could be one of the motivations behind the push for things like this.

In all seriousness, do you really think that any current western government is anti-lgbt? Do you have any examples?

Why would it matter if it's a government if it's public? Also, yes, definitely. Hungary and Poland on the extreme end to start with but really all of the Catholic and Orthodox countries to some degree not to mention some US states and rural areas even in northern Europe...

Re: Online abuse: banning anonymous social media accounts is not the answer

#86
post #23

Anonymity is important because it allows you to have discussions purely based on the arguments and opinions, without the bias of who youre talking to. I often find myself having a wonderfully deep discussion with someone online, and when I eventually find out what they look like (etc), I often realize that they dont look as friendly, educated, etc as they are. Humans are really bad at this, and you will put people in…

Anonymity can enable that but it also enables far nastier things.

There are pros and cons. Simply pointing out pros is not enough to win the day.

Re: Online abuse: banning anonymous social media accounts is not the answer

#87
post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just discussed this with a bunch of my friends. If you're having a high level technical exchange with somebody that you don't know, then you find out that that other person is a female, you're really impressed, that a girl will be that good at this very technical topic. If, OTOH, you find out that that other person is a black guy (assuming you're white), you go through one of two reactions: If you're opinion of bla…

This seems to say a lot about you but not so much about others. You're saying your default opinion is that women wouldn't be good at a technical topic. And that you believe that white people only have two possible opinions coming in to an encounter with a black person: your opinion could be low, or you could be racist. That's a very limited perspective.

I also don't see how those are two separate opinions. Having a low opinion of someone based on the color of their skin isn't racism?

Re: Online abuse: banning anonymous social media accounts is not the answer

#88
post #23

Anonymity is important because it allows you to have discussions purely based on the arguments and opinions, without the bias of who youre talking to. I often find myself having a wonderfully deep discussion with someone online, and when I eventually find out what they look like (etc), I often realize that they dont look as friendly, educated, etc as they are. Humans are really bad at this, and you will put people in…

As someone who was a long time user of 4chan and that believed this once before, I now adamantly disagree that total anonymity leads to better discussion and believe that 4chan and the like are ultimately failed experiments.

With total anonymity you end up with trolls or people who are just seriously misinformed arguing vigorously.

You can spend the time and present arguments to possibly convince an actual reasonable person. It gets tiresome over time posting the same basic information. Most of the boards on there end up with a good baseline of information for their topics over years, but for anyone slightly knowledgeable it is tiresome to move topics to that eventual baseline and especially to move them past it. That same information can usually be collected from less toxic sources in a few months as opposed to years that the collective takes.

Every once in a while you'll get a fresh expert that hasn't gotten tired of posting the same information, but I stopped years ago bothering to share any information I had. It's always an up hill battle and the posts will be gone in a few hours or, at best, days

But trolls end up dominating. If you waste your time writing informed sourced posts about anything (slavery is bad, the Holocaust happened, Earth isn't flat, etc) all that will happen is the person will eventually just criticize basic grammar mistakes, insult you, and post the same garbage in a new thread.

If you make the mistake of arguing with organized trolls, you'll get link bombed with shit sources and barely tangentially related long sources that suck up your time before you realize that they don't present any facts that are actually relevant to the discussion.

Even 4chan knows this. The business board has measures in place to inform readers when a poster is the same person.

Real names are not needed online to have good discussion. But it's absolutely needed for posters to have repercussions for past posts. True anonymity leads to shallow discussion and trolls.

Re: Online abuse: banning anonymous social media accounts is not the answer

#89
The best thing is don't join social network or unjoin the ones you are on if you find them toxic. if you find a person toxic, almost every social platform has a way of blocking them. i use it all the time. life doesn't have to be stressful.

Re: Online abuse: banning anonymous social media accounts is not the answer

#90
This is just another example of politicians using a tragedy to push an existing agenda. As noted in the article and in the comments here, most people don't have a problem posting hate under their own names.

Who does like anonymity? Government dissidents. Reporters. Human rights workers and investigators.

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