Mihály Csíkszentmihályi has died • Hacker News Board

Re: Mihály Csíkszentmihályi has died

#51

Post by obtusifolia » Thu, Oct 21, 2021, 1:30 PM UTC

stavros wrote: post #35

kmarc wrote: post #19

For the casual HN reader, he was the one who recognized and scientifically described the creative state of "flow" [1] Why would it be of interest for the audience of hackernews? Well, programmers and related fields' mostly creative workers tend to experience the flow, and even though it is hard to explain (or describe, for that matter) most of us agree that it's great to be in. [1]: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fl…

I tend to describe flow as "when an hour passes in three minutes".

I love it how it's ambiguous whether the three minutes or the hour is supposed to be the real time passed in your comment, but according to Csíkszentmihályi both can indicate a flow state.

> One of the most common descriptions of optimal experience is that time no longer seems to pass the way it ordinarily does. The objective, external duration we measure with reference to outside events like night and day, or the orderly progression of clocks, is rendered irrelevant by the rhythms dictated by the activity. Often hours seem to pass by in minutes; in general, most people report that time seems to pass much faster. But occasionally the reverse occurs: Ballet dancers describe how a difficult turn that takes less than a second in real time stretches out for what seems like minutes: "Two things happen. One is that it seems to pass really fast in one sense. After it’s passed, it seems to have passed really fast. I see that it’s 1:00 in the morning, and I say: 'Aha, just a few minutes ago it was 8:00.' But then while I’m dancing... it seems like it’s been much longer than maybe it really was." The safest generalization to make about this phenomenon is to say that during the flow experience the sense of time bears little relation to the passage of time as measured by the absolute convention of the clock.

Re: Mihály Csíkszentmihályi has died

#52

Post by vladoski » Thu, Oct 21, 2021, 1:36 PM UTC

fallat wrote: post #49

Tangential question: Could someone tell me how you're supposed to read "Csíkszentmihályi" ? To me it seems that names are supposed to be broken up into their syllables, but I could be very wrong: Csiks-zent-mihal-yi Essentially the same as: Sixzent-mehalyee

It should be something like: tcheek-sent-me-hal-yee in english

Re: Mihály Csíkszentmihályi has died

#53

Post by neogodless » Thu, Oct 21, 2021, 1:41 PM UTC

fallat wrote: post #49

Tangential question: Could someone tell me how you're supposed to read "Csíkszentmihályi" ? To me it seems that names are supposed to be broken up into their syllables, but I could be very wrong: Csiks-zent-mihal-yi Essentially the same as: Sixzent-mehalyee

If you look through the few dozen comments here, there's several threads about this. In fact, it seems to be the primary topic of conversation.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28940355

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28944034

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28943790

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28941100

Re: Mihály Csíkszentmihályi has died

#54

Post by telesilla » Thu, Oct 21, 2021, 1:51 PM UTC

vladoski wrote: post #52

fallat wrote: post #49

Tangential question: Could someone tell me how you're supposed to read "Csíkszentmihályi" ? To me it seems that names are supposed to be broken up into their syllables, but I could be very wrong: Csiks-zent-mihal-yi Essentially the same as: Sixzent-mehalyee

It should be something like: tcheek-sent-me-hal-yee in english

With which accents? I teach and always embarrassingly stumble when I need to announce him.

As a musician his work has been immensely important.

Re: Mihály Csíkszentmihályi has died

#55

Post by agumonkey » Thu, Oct 21, 2021, 2:03 PM UTC

kashyapc wrote: post #31

One of my favorite quotes from his book, Flow : "The ultimate test for the ability to control the quality of experience is what a person does in solitude, with no external demands to give structure to attention. It is relatively easy to become involved with a job, to enjoy the company of friends, to be entertained in a theater or at a concert. But what happens when we are left to our own devices? Alone, when the dark…

And it's staggering that most social structures are impeding that.

We need to rethink social interactions to focus on beneficial self/group growth, and not only the material/economical side.

Re: Mihály Csíkszentmihályi has died

#56

Post by akkartik » Thu, Oct 21, 2021, 2:10 PM UTC

kashyapc wrote: post #31

One of my favorite quotes from his book, Flow : "The ultimate test for the ability to control the quality of experience is what a person does in solitude, with no external demands to give structure to attention. It is relatively easy to become involved with a job, to enjoy the company of friends, to be entertained in a theater or at a concert. But what happens when we are left to our own devices? Alone, when the dark…

I wonder if future generations will totally misunderstand "left to own devices." No, it doesn't mean with your phone, tablet and watch.

Re: Mihály Csíkszentmihályi has died

#57

Post by madcaptenor » Thu, Oct 21, 2021, 2:33 PM UTC

rob74 wrote: post #17

The correct name is Mihály Csíkszentmihályi (never mind the diacritics, but the "i" appended to the first name is definitely wrong). Explanation for language nerds: Mihály is the Hungarian version of "Michael", Csíkszentmihály is a Hungarian village in Romania with a name derived from St. Michael ( https://ro.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mih%C4%83ileni,_Harghita ), and the "i" at the end denotes a toponymic surname ( https://e…

Looks like there are a whole bunch of towns with similar names: Csíkszentgyörgy, Csíkszentkirály, Csíkszentmiklós, ... (from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cs%C3%ADk_(disambiguation)) - Csík was a county of Hungary that's now in Romania, so a lot of towns in that area have Csík in their Hungarian names.

Re: Mihály Csíkszentmihályi has died

#58

Post by rgrieselhuber » Thu, Oct 21, 2021, 2:43 PM UTC

DocTomoe wrote: post #40

kashyapc wrote: post #31

One of my favorite quotes from his book, Flow : "The ultimate test for the ability to control the quality of experience is what a person does in solitude, with no external demands to give structure to attention. It is relatively easy to become involved with a job, to enjoy the company of friends, to be entertained in a theater or at a concert. But what happens when we are left to our own devices? Alone, when the dark…

> Csíkszentmihályi's Flow also introduced me to Seneca and Marcus Aurelius (although, I prefer Epictetus to Aurelius). Flow led me down the rabbit hole to philosophical Daoism. It is astonishing how closely intertwined philosophy and psychology turn out to be.

Very much so. My early studies of Taoism were affected heavily by the notion that the philosophy was a response to an unknown cataclysm of some sort, I just wish I could track down the original source on that idea. Jung’s investigation into Aion is also connected somehow to this but it is an area I need to research further.

Re: Mihály Csíkszentmihályi has died

#59

Post by dsizzle » Thu, Oct 21, 2021, 2:54 PM UTC

Noticed there are two other stories on the HN front page now featuring pop psychology: one on Kahneman's work and another by Dunning. I wonder if this news is part of the reason why?

Re: Mihály Csíkszentmihályi has died

#60

Post by QuestingElf » Thu, Oct 21, 2021, 2:54 PM UTC

kmarc wrote: post #19

For the casual HN reader, he was the one who recognized and scientifically described the creative state of "flow" [1] Why would it be of interest for the audience of hackernews? Well, programmers and related fields' mostly creative workers tend to experience the flow, and even though it is hard to explain (or describe, for that matter) most of us agree that it's great to be in. [1]: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fl…

Summoning that successful kind of creative, productive, free play state of mind is really difficult in software coding job interviews. There's a lot of back and forth, warming up as well as looking up things and experimenting to reach that flow state. Once you're in it, you know you're in it. You've shipped robust apps thanks to it.

Having to explain that almost instinctive process to a complete stranger who has control over your career and income can really hamper or destroy the ability to get into that groove. I've found it really useful to know about flow, what can get it going and when it's just not happening, and most interviews just aren't set up to encourage it. Csikszentmihalyi wrote a shorter book called "Finding Flow" which speaks of creating situations that bring out the best in others and us.