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Apple M1 Max Geekbench Score

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Re: Apple M1 Max Geekbench Score

#721

Post by deergomoo »

ksec wrote: post #167

I have seen far too many people making comments on MacPro "Pro" Chip. A hypothetical 32 Core CPU and 64 Core GPU is about the max Apple could make in terms of die size reticle limit without going chiplet and TDP limit without some exotic cooling solution. Which means you cant have some imaginary 64 Core CPU and 128 Core GPU. We can now finally have a Mac Cube, where the vast majority of the Cube will simply be a heat…

> Interesting question would be memory, current Mac Pro support 1.5TB

I wonder whether it might have on-chip RAM and slotted RAM?

Not sure what the implications to software and performance would be there, but the whole point of the new Mac Pro was an admission that the customers in that market need components they can chop and change as required. They obviously still care about that market, otherwise they would have just discontinued the Mac Pro and left it at that (instead they discontinued the iMac Pro—the intended successor to the Mac Pro—because a modular desktop is a better fit).

It would be super weird to do a total 180 on that now, especially considering they went to the effort of building things like the Afterburner cards. The move to ARM was surely in motion before work started on the latest Mac Pro design so I'm really interested to see where things go here. "Modular tower" and "tightly integrated SoC" seem completely at odds with each other.

Re: Apple M1 Max Geekbench Score

#722

Post by ho_schi »

adrianN wrote: post #576
lanza wrote: post #558

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're missing out on the fact that Apple didn't release a 12980hk or 5980hx competitor. These are 30 watt chips that trounce the competition's 65 watt (e.g. the 12980hk and 5980hx) and beyond chips. Hell, this Geekbench is faster than a desktop 125 watt 11900k. It's faster than a desktop 105 watt 5800x. Apple intentionally played to the competition here. They know AMD/Intel reach some performance level X and release…

> It might be a long time before it makes sense to buy a non-Apple laptop. ...if you only care about the things that Apple laptops are good at. Almost nobody needs a top-of-the-line laptop to do their tasks. Most things that people want to do with computers can be done on a machine that is five to ten years old without any trouble at all. For example I use a ThinkPad T460p, and while the geekbench scores for its proc…

The keyboard of the ThinkPad is and was always great and the TrackPoint is a bonus on top of it for some of us. The other part of Input/Output is a good screen. Only after I/O the performance is of matter.

What I don't like about Apples devices is the keyboard, they don't provide a equally good trigger point (resistance and feedback) and the keycaps aren't concave (not leading fingers). The quality problems and the questionable Touchbar are problem, too. Lenovo did that before Apple and immediately stopped it, they accept mistake far quicker. I still suspect both - Apple and Lenvo - tried to save money with a cheap touchbar instead of more expensive keys.

But there is the performance? First, Apple only claims to be fast. What matter are comparisons of portable applications and not synthetic benchmarks. Benchmarks never mattered. Secondly, Apple uses a lot of money (from the customers) to get the best chip quality in industry from TMSC.

What we have are the choice between all-purpose computers from vendors like Lenovo, Dell or System67 or computing appliances from Apple. I say computing appliance and not all-purpose computer, because I'm not aware of official porting documentation for BSD, Linux or Windows. More importantly MacOS hinders free application shipment not as worse as iOS but it is already a pain for developers, you need to use Homebrew for serious computing tasks.

Finally the money?

Lenovo wants 1.000 - 1.700 Euro for a premium laptop like ThinkPad X13/T14 with replacement parts for five years, public maintenance manuals and official support for Linux and Windows.

Apple wants 2.400 - 3.400 for no maintenance manuals, no public available replacement parts and you must use MacOS. Okay, the claim it is faster. Likely it is.

You buy performance with an exorbitant amount of money but with multiple drawbacks? Currently I'm still using a eight year old ThinkPad X220 with Linux. The operating-system I want and need, excellent keyboard, comfortable trackpoint and a good IPS-Screen. I think the money was well spent - for me :)

Re: Apple M1 Max Geekbench Score

#723

Post by qball »

dijit wrote: post #629
diffeomorphism wrote: post #621

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Define "extremely". You get maybe a factor 2 or so, not 10 or 100. Is that nicer? Yes, sure. Is it necessary? No, older stuff is perfectly sufficient for most people. Also, it is "if you need that power and need it with laptop formfactor". Again, impressive, but desktops/servers work just as well for most people.

2011 desktop CPUs will perform about half as well as a modern laptop one. I don’t even think Sandybridge (Intel 2011) CPUs support h264 decode- a pretty common requirement these days for zoom, slack, teams and video streaming sites such as YouTube.

>2011 desktop CPUs will perform about half as well as a modern laptop one.

Maybe, but the fat client-thin client pendulum has swung back in favor of thin clients to the point that CPU performance is generally irrelevant (it kind of has to be, since most people browse the Web with their phones). As for games, provided you throw enough GPU at the problem acceptable performance is still absolutely achievable, but that's not new either.

>a pretty common requirement these days for zoom, slack, teams and video streaming sites such as YouTube

It really isn't: from experience the hard line for acceptable performance is "anything first-gen Core iX (Nehalem) or later"- Core 2 systems are legitimately too old for things like 4K video playback, however. The limiting factor on older machines like that is ultimately RAM (because Electron), but provided you've maxed out a system with 16GB+ and an SSD there's no real performance difference between a first-gen Core system and an 11th-gen Core system for all thin client (read: web) applications.

That said, it's also worth noting that the average laptop really took a dive in speed with Haswell and didn't start getting the 10% year-over-year improvements again until Skylake because ultra-low-voltage processors became the norm after that time and set the average laptop about 4 years back in speed compared to their standard-voltage counterparts: those laptops genuinely might not be fast enough now, but the standard-voltage ones absolutely are.

Re: Apple M1 Max Geekbench Score

#724

Post by peoplefromibiza »

zsmi wrote: post #369
KptMarchewa wrote: post #327

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you really rendering in a cafe that you need on the go GPU performance?

For the content creator class that needs to shoot/edit/upload daily, while minimizing staff, I can see definite advantages to having a setup which is both performant and mobile.

honestly half hour on plug every 4 hours of work sounds mobile enough to me.

I worked in the content creators business making videos, photos and music and frankly the need for 15 hours of battery is a (very cool indeed) glamorous IG fantasy.

In reality even when we were really on the move (I used to follow surfers on several isolated beaches in South Europe) the main problem were the phones' batteries - using them in hotspot mode seriously reduce their battery life - and we could always turn on the van's engine and use the generator to recharge electronic devices.

Post processing was done plugged to the generator.

Because it's better to sit comfortably to watch hours of footage or hundreds of pictures.

I can't imagine many other activities that are equally challenging for a mobile setup.

Re: Apple M1 Max Geekbench Score

#725

Post by joconde »

blakesterz wrote: post #100

I just can't figure out what I'm missing on the "M1 is so fast" side of things. For years I worked* on an Ubuntu desktop machine I built myself. Early this year I switched to a brand new M1 mini and this this is slower and less reliable than the thing I built myself that runs Ubuntu. My Ubuntu machine had a few little issues every no and then. My Mini has weird bugs all the time. e.g. Green Screen Crashes when I have…

> My Mini has weird bugs all the time. e.g. Green Screen Crashes when I have a thumbdrive plugged in. Won't wake from sleep. Loses bluetooth randomly.

Either the Mini is much buggier than the MacBook Air by design, or you need to get it replaced under warranty. My MBA is the first laptop I've used for months with absolutely no hardware interaction issue.

Re: Apple M1 Max Geekbench Score

#726

Post by dncornholio »

plandis wrote: post #94
Thaxll wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's probably bad, the M1 could not get 60fps on WoW so ... When I see Apple comparison I would take that with a grain of salts because the M1 is not able to run any modern game at decent fps.

That’s not great especially because I believe WoW works natively for the M1 and uses the Metal API. My follow up would be what settings were you playing at?

WoW is not a graphical demanding game even on the highest settings

Re: Apple M1 Max Geekbench Score

#727

Post by chrisjc »

musicale wrote: post #606
throwaway894345 wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's Docker for Mac versus native Docker. Docker only runs on Linux, so Docker for Mac spins up a linux VM to run your containers. When you mount your Ruby or Python projects into your containers, Docker for Mac marshals tons of filesystem events over the host/guest boundary which absolutely devastates your CPU. Docker for Mac is really just bad for your use case. No idea what's going on with the thumb drive, bluet…

I wonder how well ARM64 is supported in the Docker community? Presumably x86 Docker images running in emulation would be even slower than ARM64 images running in a Linux VM. Though as you note they're completely different classes of hardware (500W vs. 26.5W), a more Apples-to-Apples (so to speak) comparison would be native Ubuntu on both systems, though as I understand it Ubuntu for M1 is not complete and may lack GP…

I don't think chip architecture was the main issue that the parent was alluding to. The same issues would arise if it was Docker running an x86 image on an x86 chip on a Mac.

Docker doesn't run natively on OSX, unlike Linux where it does. As a result, Docker Desktop for Mac spins up a linux VM, and this is where penalties begin to be payed.

I do wonder if Docker Desktop is smart enough to tailor the VM's architecture to the image's architecture? Moreover, is it smart enough to tailor both the VM's architecture and images architecture to the host's hardware architecture?

I'd be interested to see how these soft and hard architecture combinations actually change the performance characteristics:

    M1/ARM -> x86-VM -> ARM-image
 vs 
    M1/ARM -> ARM-VM -> ARM-image
I wonder how difficult it would be to support docker natively on OSX (BSD?) or if Apple has any intention on providing that support?

Re: Apple M1 Max Geekbench Score

#728

Post by klelatti »

bombcar wrote: post #505
klelatti wrote: post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don’t really understand this argument - Apple has had 13 years to optimise Mac OS for Intel and only a couple of years for M1 / can’t see how a video encoding accelerator affects responsiveness.

Apple has been optimizing both sides (hard and soft)ware for iOS for a lot longer. They’ve learned.

That’s a fair point - I think that it works both ways too - they know a lot about optimising CPU design for iOS / MacOS especially in low power environments.

Re: Apple M1 Max Geekbench Score

#729

Post by YuukiRey »

blakesterz wrote: post #100

I just can't figure out what I'm missing on the "M1 is so fast" side of things. For years I worked* on an Ubuntu desktop machine I built myself. Early this year I switched to a brand new M1 mini and this this is slower and less reliable than the thing I built myself that runs Ubuntu. My Ubuntu machine had a few little issues every no and then. My Mini has weird bugs all the time. e.g. Green Screen Crashes when I have…

My experience is the opposite. I love Linux, but my MacOS work laptop is just so much better.

For as long as I've used Linux it freezes randomly. This happens on all hardware configurations I've ever owned. If I don't regularly save my work, I will end up losing it.

These days I also can't leave my desktop PC suspended for too long. At some point the fans start spinning at max. No reason why.

As for my 13 inch M1 laptop, I don't even know if it has fans. I've never heard them even if I'm in a zoom meeting, sharing my screen, while compiling half the world.

Also in Linux I can't really use Zoom screen sharing. Seems to leek memory and after a while it crashes. Of course that's not Linux fault.

On my Linux machine it takes significant effort to use my AirPod's microphone.

And that's not even talking about battery life on Linux laptops.

It's always interesting how we all have such completely different experiences with our hardware and software.

Re: Apple M1 Max Geekbench Score

#730

Post by oblio »

vmception wrote: post #233
mikhailt wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many folks are comparing it to previous Macs with macOS, not PCs nor other distros. If you have an Intel Mac next to it, there's a clear noticeable difference assuming macOS is on it. If you put W10 on the Intel Mac, it is much faster than macOS on it (from my own experience). If we could run W10 or Linux on M1, it will be much faster than Intel Mac. Another example, Windows 10/11 on ARM in Parallels on my MBA m1 is…

For me, all the gains from a W10 running faster than MacOS are lost because I have to immediately go into control panel to fix everything. Those fast computers are waiting on me to improve the user experience most of the time. I'm personally not really splitting hairs over much longer running processes if I have to walk away anyway.

Fix everything?
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