Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Evidence for European presence in the Americas in AD 1021

nature.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

231–240 of 408 posts

Re: Evidence for European presence in the Americas in AD 1021

#231

Post by edgyquant »

krapp wrote: post #148
broof wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

well yeah Erikson was first, but he didn't "discover" it in the sense that Columbus did. I would say they're categorically different. See my comment below.

Columbus never even set foot in North America. He "discovered" some islands in the Caribbean and Bahamas. The narrative of Columbus "discovering" the land that would become the United States has never been anything but propaganda[0]. [0] https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2020/06/15/columbus-n...

I’ve never heard anyone say the Columbus discovered North America except maybe if you include the Caribbean as part of North America.

Re: Evidence for European presence in the Americas in AD 1021

#232

Post by edgyquant »

avgcorrection wrote: post #168
broof wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

well yeah Erikson was first, but he didn't "discover" it in the sense that Columbus did. I would say they're categorically different. See my comment below.

Yeah yeah, you’re just repeating yourself. Setting your own idiosyncratic/arbitrary rules.

It isn’t their arbitrary rules, it’s the general consensus of most of the world

Re: Evidence for European presence in the Americas in AD 1021

#233

Post by davidw »

chana_masala wrote: post #209
mtoohig wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I live in Vanuatu and is it very far to the west side of the Pacific yet the almost southern most island of Vanuatu, Aneityum, has stories of what they called the "Yellow People" that were on the island before they, Melanesians, arrived from northern islands. These people on the island were excellent stone carvers and could make stone walls which the current locals admit they never learned from the "yellow people". O…

I don't think I've come across anyone on HN from Vanuatu. If you're open to answering, I wonder if you work in tech? What's the tech industry like there?

That is really cool isn't it? I was awestruck when I discovered in the early 90ies that I could converse online with people in locales very, very far from me.

Re: Evidence for European presence in the Americas in AD 1021

#234

Post by mandmandam »

newfriend wrote: post #179

The media is really pushing this (and related) story hard this year. Anything to delegitimize Columbus.

... Good.

Listening to the story in school it was obvious there was some stuff being glossed over; like, how did he discover America if there were people there already? ... And those people just gave their land to Europeans because ... ?

And, in the years since grade school, the answer to those questions have led to darker questions, with dark answers.

And oh shit, we're actually still pulling this shit. So again - good. Fuck that guy, and fuck his fake myth.

Re: Evidence for European presence in the Americas in AD 1021

#235

Post by krapp »

edgyquant wrote: post #231
krapp wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Columbus never even set foot in North America. He "discovered" some islands in the Caribbean and Bahamas. The narrative of Columbus "discovering" the land that would become the United States has never been anything but propaganda[0]. [0] https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2020/06/15/columbus-n...

I’ve never heard anyone say the Columbus discovered North America except maybe if you include the Caribbean as part of North America.

It's an old and very popular misconception, persistently believed by most in the US.

Re: Evidence for European presence in the Americas in AD 1021

#236

Post by WalterBright »

queuebert wrote: post #46
lifeisstillgood wrote: post #28

An interesting counter-factual that comes to mind - if the Norse Greenlanders had brought smallpox or other diseases with them, then Native Americans would have had 500 years to recover (and keep immunity?) - The conquistadors would have faced millions of not-dying-natives. A much different world would have resulted.

Parallel evolution of two strains of smallpox might have meant still no immunity to the Spanish version several centuries later. And the diseases were only a small factor in the outcome of the colonization. Guns being a much larger factor, for example.

> And the diseases were only a small factor in the outcome of the colonization. Guns being a much larger factor, for example.

I'm not so sure about that. Writing gave a huge advantage to the Western forces. By that I mean military men had access to a couple thousand years of military tactics books. Having advanced weapons is one thing, knowing strategy and tactics is quite another.

For example, there are battles where the Romans were outnumbered 10:1 and still defeated a better armed barbarian army. The Romans were organized, disciplined, and trained to fight as a unit. They would just slaughter the barbarians who fought as individuals.

Remember, guns at the time were muzzle-loading, and had some rube goldberg contraption to light the powder. They were unreliable, inaccurate, and very slow to reload.

Re: Evidence for European presence in the Americas in AD 1021

#237

Post by munk-a »

gremloni wrote: post #198
BurningFrog wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's really interesting! Of course, if the native population died off around them, the Vikings would probably have expanded their settlements and perhaps ruled North America instead.

Maybe but the Viking’s modus operandi seemed like it was pillage/rape/kidnap the best looking women and then head out. I can only think of one settlement the Vikings set up in Gaul.

There were norse settlments all over the place - Russia, Normandy, Lower and Central Germany, England (the Danelaw was a thing for a while), Ireland and, famously, Byzantium.

For settling uninhabited locales you've got Shetland, Mann, the Isles, Iceland and some seasonal settlements on Greenland.

Re: Evidence for European presence in the Americas in AD 1021

#238

Post by boomboomsubban »

gremloni wrote: post #198
BurningFrog wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's really interesting! Of course, if the native population died off around them, the Vikings would probably have expanded their settlements and perhaps ruled North America instead.

Maybe but the Viking’s modus operandi seemed like it was pillage/rape/kidnap the best looking women and then head out. I can only think of one settlement the Vikings set up in Gaul.

> I can only think of one settlement the Vikings set up in Gaul

Are you calling Normandy one settlement? As they certainly spent most of the Viking age colonizing from Iceland to Sicily.

Re: Evidence for European presence in the Americas in AD 1021

#240

Post by makeitdouble »

chestertn wrote: post #41

There are plenty of valid claims that many other civilizations contacted America: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pre-Columbian_trans-oceanic_co... But it is meaningless since they did not write about it nor they stablished commerce. The fact is that before 1492, most civilizations in Africa/Asia/Europe did not know that America existed and that other humans lived there. After 1492, that changed forever.

> But it is meaningless __to western european cultures__ since they did not write about it __in the dominant languages__ nor they stablished commerce __with europe__

Added the implicit bits. That doesn’t take anything from your point, I just think having the perspective explicited helps grasp it better.

It will also cover the discussions when ancient China will be found to have had extensive links as well, etc.

Post reply on HN