That’s why the government should have healthcare for all like Europe and ever other advanced economy.
Worn-out nurses hit the road for better pay, stressing hospital budgets, morale
71–80 of 97 posts
Re: Worn-out nurses hit the road for better pay, stressing hospital budgets, morale
#72There are a few things I've learned from the nurses I know... - Nurses, the primary caregivers in Hospitals, have been treated pretty poorly for a long time. Some of it is pay, some of it is expectations, some of it is just the way the people around them treat them (e.g., the way surgeons often talk to them). - Some management has gotten down right mean. I know one hospital that has dictated that refusing to work a m…
> (e.g., the way surgeons often talk to them) To be fair, surgeons talk to everyone that way. I haven’t met a surgeon who didn’t talk down to other people. My theory is that you have to have a huge fucking ego to cut someone open and believe you’re going to make them better.
Ego plays a part, but I think med school and residency play a bigger part. Surgery residency is ultra competitive and freaking grueling.
Basically putting 10+ years of your life into being a surgeon ends up playing a big part in your core mindset and approach to life. You don't really end up being a surgeon without being fully committed to it.
Re: Worn-out nurses hit the road for better pay, stressing hospital budgets, morale
#73Isn't the solution simple? Pay nurses like 80%-100% of what traveling nurses make, instead of 50% or less.
That’s not how business works in 2021. You hire traveling nurses to suppress wages. The hospital my wife worked in merged into a big network and gave every RN a 25% haircut, and laid off a few key departments (ER most notably), replacing them with travel nurses and a contracted medical practice. A few exceptions were made in high margin lines if business. Net result? Care sucks, finances are green. They purged the mi…
Traveling nurses have been a thing long before COVID.
Re: Worn-out nurses hit the road for better pay, stressing hospital budgets, morale
#74There are a few things I've learned from the nurses I know... - Nurses, the primary caregivers in Hospitals, have been treated pretty poorly for a long time. Some of it is pay, some of it is expectations, some of it is just the way the people around them treat them (e.g., the way surgeons often talk to them). - Some management has gotten down right mean. I know one hospital that has dictated that refusing to work a m…
> (e.g., the way surgeons often talk to them) To be fair, surgeons talk to everyone that way. I haven’t met a surgeon who didn’t talk down to other people. My theory is that you have to have a huge fucking ego to cut someone open and believe you’re going to make them better.
> I haven’t met a surgeon who didn’t talk down to other people.
Then they are a shit surgeon.
You can tell really good surgeons. Their nursing staff are on the ball and completely unafraid to call out a doctor and the surgeon has no problem with this.
I went in for wrist surgery. The anesthesiologist was not the surgeon's normal one. He said something slightly off and all 4 nurses immediately stopped him and made him correct himself and repeat the corrected statement 3 times.
THAT was a good surgeon.
Re: Worn-out nurses hit the road for better pay, stressing hospital budgets, morale
#75Earlier quoted context omitted.
Wages are orthogonal to burnout Burnout is a psychological factor
Imagine being a programmer earning 60k. Now imagine that your company has a time crunch, During that time crunch they are expecting you to work 80+ hours a week. Now imagine that because of said crunch they say "Hmm, we need some contractors to speed this up." So they hire just enough to reduce your hours from 80 to 75. Now imagine how you'd feel learning all those contractors are earning $120k and with your skill se…
This reads kind of like the first time said programmer saw the rates their company pays for contractors.
At the end of the day burnout still isn’t solved by pay.
Re: Worn-out nurses hit the road for better pay, stressing hospital budgets, morale
#76Could this also be a result of forced vaccinations on healthcare workers (who were on the front lines for us early in the pandemic) who then move to states without mandates.
AFAIK, mandatory vaccinations for healthcare workers aren't new.
One of the issues is that in the USA (as opposed to Europe and other countries that prioritize science over politics) there are no exemptions for people who have recovered from covid and have natural immunity, which has shown to be more effective than the vaccine.
Re: Worn-out nurses hit the road for better pay, stressing hospital budgets, morale
#77There are a few things I've learned from the nurses I know... - Nurses, the primary caregivers in Hospitals, have been treated pretty poorly for a long time. Some of it is pay, some of it is expectations, some of it is just the way the people around them treat them (e.g., the way surgeons often talk to them). - Some management has gotten down right mean. I know one hospital that has dictated that refusing to work a m…
> (e.g., the way surgeons often talk to them) To be fair, surgeons talk to everyone that way. I haven’t met a surgeon who didn’t talk down to other people. My theory is that you have to have a huge fucking ego to cut someone open and believe you’re going to make them better.
Bullshit. Very few doctors behave this way and it's generally any better tolerated in a healthcare workplace than in any other workplace. This is a media construct designed as a scapegoat for the many failures of the american healthcare system. The greatest trick corporate healthcare systems ever played was convincing everyone that physicians are the villains and not the mega-corp that's bleeding every penny out of healthcare.
Re: Worn-out nurses hit the road for better pay, stressing hospital budgets, morale
#78Earlier quoted context omitted.
That’s not how business works in 2021. You hire traveling nurses to suppress wages. The hospital my wife worked in merged into a big network and gave every RN a 25% haircut, and laid off a few key departments (ER most notably), replacing them with travel nurses and a contracted medical practice. A few exceptions were made in high margin lines if business. Net result? Care sucks, finances are green. They purged the mi…
Traveling nurses have been a thing long before COVID.
Yeah, I said it’s a boom not a new thing. Traveling nurses are making absurd money from COVID. Like $600+/hr
Re: Worn-out nurses hit the road for better pay, stressing hospital budgets, morale
#79There are a few things I've learned from the nurses I know... - Nurses, the primary caregivers in Hospitals, have been treated pretty poorly for a long time. Some of it is pay, some of it is expectations, some of it is just the way the people around them treat them (e.g., the way surgeons often talk to them). - Some management has gotten down right mean. I know one hospital that has dictated that refusing to work a m…
Canadian speaking, wife is ICU RN. Everything you've said is spot on, but there's always more to add. Nurses get assaulted pretty much daily. It's such a problem, management basically said it's not worth reporting because nothing is going to be done. The largest issue is the chronically understaffed units. The burnout that results from having double the normal patient load makes everyone cranky and the team atmospher…
> management basically said it's not worth reporting because nothing is going to be done.
Just call the police directly.
> She was out of school working casual shifts for 5 years before getting a temporary position, and longer after to get the permanent job
Sounds like there's too much nurses on the market if that's what the job market looks like.
Re: Worn-out nurses hit the road for better pay, stressing hospital budgets, morale
#80Earlier quoted context omitted.
> (e.g., the way surgeons often talk to them) To be fair, surgeons talk to everyone that way. I haven’t met a surgeon who didn’t talk down to other people. My theory is that you have to have a huge fucking ego to cut someone open and believe you’re going to make them better.
Surgeon here, always try to treat nurses with respect and work with them as a team member to accomplish the best care for the patient. Maybe it’s a midwest thing.
Independent of the medical profession, there is definitely a midwest thing. I have traveled a fair amount, and the culture in the US midwest is infinitely more polite, respectful, and helpful that that of the east or west coasts.