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Developer open-sources 200+ hr project after client refuses to pay

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Re: Developer open-sources 200+ hr project after client refuses to pay

#101

Post by dkersten »

RexM wrote: post #22
thebigredjay wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where is a good place to learn the ins and outs of contracts? Is there a comprehensive website or book that you can recommend? I am early in my career and have been on both sides of writing contracts. While I am figuring a lot of things out as I go it would be nice to sit down and wrap my head around this for good. Also, to the OP, is a few weeks really enough time? If those were 200 billable hours it seems like it's…

http://vimeo.com/22053820 This is a good video about contracts. It's targeted for designers, but I think most of it still applies to developers. I think the best point in the video, have a good lawyer.

When I saw the title of this submission, I immediately thought of this video. Everybody should watch this video, at least twice.

And never ever ever start work without a contract in place!

Also, the magic words to avoid the described scenario are "intellectual property will transfer on receipt of payment". The parents video covers this in more detail.

Re: Developer open-sources 200+ hr project after client refuses to pay

#102

Post by Don_Wallace »

Asking for a deposit for a project does something very important: it pre-qualifies the party asking for the work in multiple dimensions.

Here's what I mean. If they can get you a check cut for a portion of the amount of the project, then you just learned three important things about them: (a) they take you and the project seriously and are committed to your doing it; (b) they have both the signing and check writing authority to commission the project; and (c) they are able to control their organization from their end in order to make the project happen.

If it is not a major corporation and you don't get a deposit up front and you just start working, then any number of bad things can happen:

- You find out that they never intended to pay and they consider your demands for payment a joke. - It turns out that they are powerless smurfs with no signing authority - It turns out that there is absolutely no support for the project internally

In any event, it then becomes a crap shoot for you. If you get a deposit it is possible that you may be stiffed on later payments, but it becomes highly unlikelier by orders of magnitude.

A signed purchase order from a large company should be enough to go on, I guess. I have always asked for deposits.

Re: Developer open-sources 200+ hr project after client refuses to pay

#103

Post by clarkevans »

kaffeinecoma wrote: post #55
clarkevans wrote: post #53

He could have been a bit more vindictive, perhaps a non-osi compliant license like: "This code is licensed under MIT license with one exception: for 5 years, this license excludes any use which benefits directly or indirectly the current owners of UnPayingCompany, Inc. On Aug 1st, 2017, the license for this code is MIT without any restriction."

Tempting and amusing, perhaps, but it wouldn't exactly put him in a flattering light as a contractor. It might even scare off potential future clients. I think he's doing the right thing by releasing it as OSS. Hopefully he'll pick up some support hours if anyone actually ends up using it.

I don't know why you got down voted here. My suggestion was flippant. Your comment was relevant and helpful.

Re: Developer open-sources 200+ hr project after client refuses to pay

#106

Post by badclient »

Join the party. As someone who was recently ripped for $12k+, it's nice to see folks fighting back. In my case the work I did continues to remain online and in use by the original owner while I try to get l my client(who runs a sham design agency) into jail for writing returned checks--and having a history and a prior conviction of doing so.

Re: Developer open-sources 200+ hr project after client refuses to pay

#107

Post by sean12345 »

yariang wrote: post #98

I keep getting a "Could not find sprockets-2.0.0.beta.10 in any of the sources" error when I try to bundle install. Anyone know what may be causing this?

In the gem file change the rails version to gem 'rails', '~> 3.1.0.rc6'., then run bundle update. I also had an issue with the rake gem and resolved it with gem uninstall rake. Evidently the rake gem gets installed twice or something. Note, I am using Ruby 1.9.2, rvm.

Re: Developer open-sources 200+ hr project after client refuses to pay

#108

Post by mgkimsal »

badclient wrote: post #106

Join the party. As someone who was recently ripped for $12k+, it's nice to see folks fighting back. In my case the work I did continues to remain online and in use by the original owner while I try to get l my client(who runs a sham design agency) into jail for writing returned checks--and having a history and a prior conviction of doing so.

This sham agency isn't in New York city by any chance, is it?

Re: Developer open-sources 200+ hr project after client refuses to pay

#109

Post by tjmc »

badclient wrote: post #106

Join the party. As someone who was recently ripped for $12k+, it's nice to see folks fighting back. In my case the work I did continues to remain online and in use by the original owner while I try to get l my client(who runs a sham design agency) into jail for writing returned checks--and having a history and a prior conviction of doing so.

Have you considered using a debt collection agency? On the first consulting gig I ever did, I was owed $10K by a client who refused to pay. After months of patience, including offers to let them pay off the debt over time I went to a collection agency and got the lot back in a court settlement less $1k in fees for the agency (which at least was tax deductable).

I should mention that this was in Australia and I had a pretty solid contract. So this may not apply to you, but the debt collector took the hassle out of chasing it up and I didn't have to get involved in the court proceedings. It might be worth a look.

For anyone who's contracting I'd recommend a few things:

1. Always have a contract and make sure you get advice before you sign it.

2. Don't be afraid to change or negotiate terms if you need to. Look out for excessive IP restrictions and restraint of trade clauses.

3. If you're doing per-diem work, get signed weekly timesheets. They're a legal record of work done.

4. If you're building a product for a fixed price, contractually define milestone payments and ideally get a partial payment up front.

5. If a client can't or won't pay at any point, stop work until they do!

Re: Developer open-sources 200+ hr project after client refuses to pay

#110

Post by lsc »

tptacek wrote: post #82
idlewords wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An additional wrinkle is that oftentimes it can take a while to set up the mechanics of payment with a first-time client. So even if there is goodwill on both sides and a willingness to pay an initial deposit, you might not see the money until you've done quite a lot of work. Since a lot of contract work is time-sensitive, waiting for payment to clear before starting work or handing over an initial milestone might no…

This is a great thing to keep in mind before any of you think of writing an outraged blog post when a client doesn't honor Net+30 on your first invoice cycle. Clients usually don't.

oh man, this. So I've been doing contracting forever; usually direct to smaller companies or through a middleman who was also pretty small. And most of the time, smaller companies are pretty good about paying on time, and pretty responsive if you say "Hey, this is really important to me, I've gotta pay the power bill." (my power bill, well, let's just say it could buy my car every month.)

At my first contracting gig using a body shop way larger than I was, well, they'd kinda sort of start thinking about paying me 30 days after they got my net 30 invoice. This /really/ bothered me. In fact I made a lot of unprofessional noise to the client, and ended up staying home, once, until they paid me. The thing was, I was really worried that they weren't going to pay me at all.

It did not occur to me that this was just standard operating practice, and that they were planning on paying me; they just wanted to stretch it out a bit.

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