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Developer open-sources 200+ hr project after client refuses to pay

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Re: Developer open-sources 200+ hr project after client refuses to pay

#91

Post by jawngee »

My standard contract terms:

* Deposit required, typically 25%, depends mostly on the estimated length of the project.

* Payment on milestones (typically first beta and completion, possibly more depending on length of project)

* I own the IP until paid in full

* 50% kill fee less deposit

Though, honestly, I prefer day rate over project based fees. If I do a day rate, payment is due every 15 days.

It's worth the $1-2K of going to a lawyer and getting a contract boiler plated.

It basically boils down to this though: You are in business, act like it. I don't do favors for clients I don't know. Once we establish trust and relationships, I become a lot more flexible.

I thought when I started implementing these terms that I would lose business, and I have lost a few projects because of them, but honestly if they can't respect the terms, they probably aren't going to respect your work and you'll be caught in that endless freelance/consultant cycle of hunting down payment.

It's your money though, do as you wish.

Re: Developer open-sources 200+ hr project after client refuses to pay

#93

Post by alnayyir »

tptacek wrote: post #81
pilif wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

... because the AGPL would for sure stop them from using the code without giving anything back considering that they didn't even pay the author for his contract work.

If the deadbeat client was using his work , he had recourse. It might take forever to chase his money down, but it's much easier to shut a site down. By releasing the code under a permissive license, he gave up that recourse. His client's right to use the code is now a grey area. Technically, he has the same recourse in court as he did before; contracts. But he's severed the connection between that and the deployment…

>If the deadbeat client was using his work, he had recourse.

Not in China.

Re: Developer open-sources 200+ hr project after client refuses to pay

#94

Post by mbrzuzy »

dotmanish wrote: post #67
mbrzuzy wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's probably pretty much useless to them if everyone has it.

Not necessary. If you had the source code to FaceBook, most likely you won't be able to do much of it. The one who is focused on running a business on it - yes, would make a lot of it. Irrespective of who else has the raw code.

That's true, but the whole idea was to enter a market with very little to no competition. You would have the advantage with being unique. However, entering a market with 12 other people with the exact same product wouldn't be ideal.

Re: Developer open-sources 200+ hr project after client refuses to pay

#95

Post by Sandman »

alok-g wrote: post #17

Does someone know under which license is this released? Could not find this anywhere. Without the license specified, the author still retains the copyright. Also, assuming this was a work for hire, not sure who the copyright belongs to (the author or the client) given the non-payment.

Without the license specified, the author still retains the copyright.

Just one minor correction: The author holds the copyright regardless of whether the code is released under a license (open source or proprietary) or not. The fact that he is the copyright holder is what gives him the right to release the code under any license (and change the license later, should he wish to do so).

Re: Developer open-sources 200+ hr project after client refuses to pay

#97

Post by tomkarlo »

Something not noted: he's turned a negative event (getting stiffed) into positive exposure for his work with hundreds of HN readers. At least at a glance, it seems like solid and clean Rails / Ruby code (and I think I've seen some other commenters noting that as well.) I'd be surprised if this post didn't result in at least one new client down the road... nicely played.

Re: Developer open-sources 200+ hr project after client refuses to pay

#99

Post by gcb »

byoung2 wrote: post #2

After spending 200+ hours developing the system, not a dime has been seen or given Freelancers should always try to get at least a deposit upfront. When I was freelancing, I would get 100% upfront for projects under $500, 50% upfront for projects between $500 and $2000. For projects over $2000, I would get 25% upfront, and then set milestones with payments attached. I had a $7500 project once where the guy made the f…

i bet this one was on the lines "be my tech cofounder" kind of things. no one would be fooled by payment for 200 side-job hours. i think.

Re: Developer open-sources 200+ hr project after client refuses to pay

#100

Post by donw »

molecule wrote: post #10

For those who would like to avoid this situation, Mike Monteiro (@Mike_FTW) has humorously useful advice for contractors: F*ck You. Pay Me. http://vimeo.com/22053820

Fantastic video, but doesn't apply in the case of the OP, who was doing work for a client in China, where the legal system doesn't work the same way.

In China, if you have an ironclad contract and no other leverage, you have no leverage.

In cases such as this, it's best to take payment up-front for a portion of the work, either in the form of a deposit (for fixed-bid), or a retainer (for hourly work).

This means you get money up front, which is nice. More importantly, you get something I like to call fiscal inertia -- namely, if a client has paid once, they're far more likely to pay in the future.

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