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The FDA wants you to be able to buy a hearing aid without a prescription

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Re: The FDA wants you to be able to buy a hearing aid without a prescription

#321

Post by jrace »

tdeck wrote: post #304
jrace wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps it is because most of those people expected the hearing aid to work for them, and did not want to do any of the work they needed to do themselves. Imagine not reading for 10 years because of bad eyesight, eye glasses do not make it so your brain can read, but instead makes it easier for your brain to see the symbols. your brain still needs to decode and comprehend them. Our hearing system is far more complica…

This honestly doesn't sound very empathetic toward patients. Many of these people had fine hearing and then lost it. They've already "learned" how to hear and they reasonably expect the hearing aid to help restore it. In your analogy, it would be like if my vision got worse and I got eyeglasses which partially restored it, but mirrored everything upside down with tons of static. Now I've got to learn to read upside d…

A better analogy is what if your vision loss was not only clarity, but also brightness?

And once you put on your glasses everything is brighter.

You need to adjust to the change, and then slowley adapt.

Now what if putting on the glasses meant you saw far more on your peripheral vision?

This too would be a big change and a barrier to getting better.

Re: The FDA wants you to be able to buy a hearing aid without a prescription

#322

Post by dqv »

wbl wrote: post #287
dqv wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is just a general thing I've learned from working adjacent to US healthcare... It's annoying to work with and there are all kinds of little rules because of how inefficient the system is. First, always have a list of all relevant phone numbers (at a minimum, but other information is helpful too) to any healthcare entity you need to work with. Your primary care doctor, your pharmacy, your hospital, your preferred…

Or use kaiser.

It's only available in a few states :(

I’m only commenting on what I’ve seen. I’m sure a lot of people get through the system just fine with no issues. But this list is a compilation of many people experiencing issues receiving healthcare.

Re: The FDA wants you to be able to buy a hearing aid without a prescription

#323

Post by jrace »

brutus1213 wrote: post #248
jrace wrote: post #128

How much would you pay for: *Hearing test * Hearing aid fitting * Usage counselling * Follow up adjustments * Annual retest of your hearing * Replacement of lost hearing aids * Unlimited repair for 3 years ?? ====== I got out of the Audiology field in 2015. At that time all the above was included for every hearing aid we sold (Prices varied from $750 / ear - $3600 / ear. When I was in that field many companies tried…

Any insights on tuning process for little kids? (2-3 year olds?) These guys don't really have the ability to provide feedback for retuning.

Tuning for them is more about slowly increasing the sound levels overtime than adjusting for understanding.

As well you may want to work with a Speech Language Pathologist.

Re: The FDA wants you to be able to buy a hearing aid without a prescription

#324

Post by m0zg »

I heard Apple is working on hearing aid software for AirPods. This is excellent news all around. My hearing is pretty decent (save for very mild tinnitus caused by being an "invincible" idiot when I was younger and listening to music at max volume), but I'd love to be able to use vaguely AirPod shaped, reasonably priced hearing aids which would, for example, boost speech and attenuate noise in noisy environments, especially if they are able to do so directionally, for the source in front of me.

Re: The FDA wants you to be able to buy a hearing aid without a prescription

#325

Post by keithnz »

jrace wrote: post #177
dmurray wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've long thought the problem with hearing aids is the calibration process. People (often old, confused, and less tech-familiar) try them on and spend half an hour answering questions about "does that sound better?" What if, instead, the calibration process worked constantly? Give the user a button to press when they don't hear something well, and another when they do. Let them have this for a month, let them try it…

THere may be now, but not 5 years ago. I have many ideas about how the industry can be improved, especially with the use of a smart phone app and user interactions. Not only is it plausible, but would make the clinicians (fitter) job easier and lead to far more hearing aid sales.

my partners hearing aids has a smart phone app, but it seems to be built with the concept of someone else putting the calibration into it. They can then create profiles for the different situations, however it strikes me that the hearing test calibration could be done in the app as well. I would imagine for a lot of people, if you could just buy them online you wouldn't need the clinicians for many cases.

Re: The FDA wants you to be able to buy a hearing aid without a prescription

#326

Post by falcolas »

mnemotronic wrote: post #271
jrace wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They would need a properly calibrated set of headphones/microphones and environment to conduct a proper hearing test.

It could not. A hearing test requires an environment with exceptional isolation Don't be so picky. Or don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good enough.

An improper hearing test can result in an improper amplification curve, which can lead to further hearing loss.

Perfect is perfectly acceptable to aim for, when it comes to your hearing for life.

Re: The FDA wants you to be able to buy a hearing aid without a prescription

#327

Post by lisper »

BurningFrog wrote: post #317
lisper wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why the US can’t follow the models followed most elsewhere in the world is unclear To the contrary, it is very clear: regulatory capture. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regulatory_capture

Still unclear why Regulatory Capture only happens in the US?

It happens outside the U.S. as well, but the U.S. has a particularly weak form of democracy which makes it more prone to regulatory capture. In particular, money is a more powerful policial level in the U.S. than in most other democracies, and that creates a positive feedback loop that tends to encourage and reinforce regulatory capture (you use RC to make money, which you then turn around and use to pursue more RC in order to make more money...)

Re: The FDA wants you to be able to buy a hearing aid without a prescription

#328

Post by eggsmediumrare »

dsizzle wrote: post #79
JCM9 wrote: post #55

There are a number of healthcare areas in the US that have been protected by regulation, but it’s increasingly unclear if this is good for patients, consumers, or public health at large. The increasing sentiment seems to be probably not. Vision care is another area I’d expect to see more changes and disruption coming down the pipeline. Vision care is very important and advanced cases require special skills, but it’s…

Not sure why vision checks require a doctor at all. In the end, they're just relying on your responses anyway: "What's better: A or B"? In fact, I'd go further and say it doesn't even require another person. I, for one, am glad to see this bill.

That's like saying a family doctor will just ask you if you're feeling alright. I know optoms who have found parasites, diabetes, cancer... The complete disregard for an entire field of medicine in this thread is astounding...

*Edit, saw your comment about not referring to the entire checkup.

Re: The FDA wants you to be able to buy a hearing aid without a prescription

#329

Post by falcolas »

eurleif wrote: post #265
falcolas wrote: post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cool. But without properly flat headphones and sufficient sound isolation, I wouldn't put a ton of trust into it. It's probably good enough for an temporary situation, but I wouldn't trust it long term. Improper amplification can damage your hearing further.

I don't know much about this topic, so interpret these as questions, not as arguments that I have particular confidence in: * If the earbuds you use to perform the hearing test are the same ones you use with the resulting EQ profile, why does it matter whether the earbuds are flat or not? If you're taking measurements in a transformed coordinate space, and applying those measurements in the same transformed coordinat…

> If the earbuds you use to perform the hearing test are the same ones you use with the resulting EQ profile

You also have to account for the microphone, which can (and will) have its own bias. Measuring from a flat response source, and producing for a flat response mic/speaker combination will produce the most accurate results.

> active noise cancellation

ANC creates sound artifacts at low volumes. It also provides, in ideal circumstances, around 25Db of noise reduction. You probably want between 40 and 80Db (or more) of noise reduction, depending on the ambient noise level around you. The threshold of hearing hovers around 10Db for healthy ears. Healthy ears can hearing your own heartbeat in an anechoic chamber (as close to 0Db as we can get).

> wouldn't the same thing apply to EQ profiles that aren't intended to correct hearing

If you're correcting for a 40Db loss at one frequency (taken randomly from the surrounding threads), applying it to a frequency where you have only 20Db loss can result in an extra 20Db of sound at that frequency. 20Db is 4x louder by perception, and over 6x higher pressure.

For a point of reference, Apple music's EQ curves are 12Db, 24Db if you set the extremes. So yes, they could damage your hearing, but that will depend more on the volume than the EQ.

Re: The FDA wants you to be able to buy a hearing aid without a prescription

#330

Post by falcolas »

slownews45 wrote: post #288
falcolas wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> conduct a hearing test It could not. A hearing test requires an environment with exceptional isolation and flat-response drivers (iPods are not remotely flat) to be done properly. > do a hearing based EQ on incoming sound It could, given a proper prescription for the EQ, and an understanding of the response curve of the iPods' mic and drivers. > do sound profiles Not required, the EQ is tied to your hearing damage,…

I've got a higher end audio setup, I can put the sound calibration mic in the listening position etc (think YPAO / Audyssey etc). But you get little weird sync issues at times between sources / displays etc. On a whim I tried Apple's wireless sync. It's end to end, and works as well as I could with manual tuning (which I would do by filming at high speed a time audio sync track) https://www.reddit.com/r/appletv/comme…

> Let the market decide

I really hate it when people say "let the market decide" when it comes to health care. It's how we get $10,000 suppositories (a story earlier this week).

It appears you really like Apple's audio hardware (whereas I think it's middling crap), know little about hearing loss, and I don't feel like arguing the points.

Congratulations, you win.

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