Earlier quoted context omitted.
The green card infinite extension is just a bug in the system. H1B was very much supposed to be a temporary program while the company can train an American. It's almost entirely misuse bar a few PhD's.
So your problem is with allowing companies to sponsor Permanent Residency applications at all?
Facebook Settles with U.S. Gov over Improperly Reserving Jobs for Immigrants
131–140 of 146 posts
Re: Facebook Settles with U.S. Gov over Improperly Reserving Jobs for Immigrants
#132Earlier quoted context omitted.
Do we need everyone to be a software developer or just a few more? I'm sure we could increase the numbers if we actually tried.
Software engineers today are not just doing ROI positive work, but extremely ROI positive work. Our collective contribution the economy would not be maximized until the point where even the most marginally useful projects could get competently staffed. We are very far from that world.
Re: Facebook Settles with U.S. Gov over Improperly Reserving Jobs for Immigrants
#133Earlier quoted context omitted.
We would be lying to ourselves if we pretended that we could turn all the Jobseeker’s Allowance material into software developers with some training, just for the sake of not hiring a Mexican or a Rumanian.
Do we need everyone to be a software developer or just a few more? I'm sure we could increase the numbers if we actually tried.
Re: Facebook Settles with U.S. Gov over Improperly Reserving Jobs for Immigrants
#134Earlier quoted context omitted.
So your problem is with allowing companies to sponsor Permanent Residency applications at all?
I'm not an immigration lawyer but I assume sponsoring a permanent resident would be covered under a different program with different rules. Trying to shoehorn this into H1B is very much the wrong program and abuse. The intent of the program was that the green card application would have been accepted or rejected within a reasonable time frame and not exist as a way to extend the temporary H1B indefinitely.
Re: Facebook Settles with U.S. Gov over Improperly Reserving Jobs for Immigrants
#135Earlier quoted context omitted.
Do we need everyone to be a software developer or just a few more? I'm sure we could increase the numbers if we actually tried.
I tend to think that almost everybody who can work in tech, where almost everybody is self-learned, already does so or will do so once they get old enough. It's not law or medicine that have high barriers to enter. I'm not saying you can't train literally anybody, but the bulk of the population of any given country is not fungible, so if you have a large tech industry you will inevitably hire massively abroad.
Re: Facebook Settles with U.S. Gov over Improperly Reserving Jobs for Immigrants
#136Earlier quoted context omitted.
Couldn't companies also use the 6 years that they employ a foreigner to train an American worker to fill the position? A bachelors program is only 4 years and the company could sponsor it if they were in such desperate need.
Unfortunately a lot of these jobs aren’t exactly jobs that you can train someone from 0. These are jobs that require advanced education and the ability to be able to grasp certain concepts. They can’t just train anyone, but they can train university students in certain majors, which tbh they already do. All of these companies hire a TON of fresh grads, which is exactly what you’re saying, training someone to do the j…
I would imagine this is a symptom of immigration abuse more than a rationale for more of these visas, as if often touted.
Besides tech, US universities are probably the biggest abuser of the foreign worker / visa pipeline. Not only for workers themselves, but the educational system itself now caters to inflated tuition paying foreigners who know they'll be awarded, on top of their degree, an OPT or similar visa that will allow them to chain it to another longer term method like Perm residence, marriage, H1B, etc - such that they'll be here for decades with the ability to remain and work and (push down wages for citizens), even though the original deal was they were coming here to study for 2 years and then go back home.
If you were a smart 20 year old American deciding on your major, and you noticed that 90% of the tech classes were foreigners, what would you do? And furthermore, the graduate tech programs didn't even seem to want you, because they knew they could get a foreigner to pay 2x as much tuition and / or work twice as hard, because the gov't was allowing the college to essentially "sell" a work visa along with the diploma to the foreign students.
If I were advising some bright 20 year old, I'd tell them to run from academia and tech as fast as they can - use their smarts in law or medicine where you'll make 2x as much with 2x the respect, and you won't be competing against millions of foreign workers in your own country.
Re: Facebook Settles with U.S. Gov over Improperly Reserving Jobs for Immigrants
#137Earlier quoted context omitted.
Immigrants are brought into the US to fill existing positions under poorer conditions than US workers, and to generally boost aggregate GDP (mostly to the benefit of capital/land owners). Canada and Australia have extremely generous immigration systems, but are backwaters for software development compared to the USA, and IT salaries are worse. Additionally, there is no diversity or equality in the US H1B intake: Indi…
Or alternatively, make the H1B process an auction instead of a lottery to guarantee the visas actually go to positions at companies that need them enough to pay top dollar.
And it also perpetuates the "magic number" of visas, which is not based on anything rational or reasoned. It's just a number someone invented.
Re: Facebook Settles with U.S. Gov over Improperly Reserving Jobs for Immigrants
#138Earlier quoted context omitted.
There needs to be a balance as there’s an existing country that enabled these companies to exist and grow as large as they have on the backs of its treasure and blood. Personally I think we should be trying to get most of the worlds brightest to want to become citizens here. The issue is when companies have low skilled jobs that they want H1Bs using because they can pay them less and know they’ll stay around as they…
> low skilled jobs Hard work is a skill in and of itself, that many of our ancestors who migrated here possessed - and not much else.
1. The population was low then, and the entire economic dynamic and need for immigrants was completely different than now. Laws change over time to reflect the current situation and should never remain static.
2. We already have existing ways for people to immigrate here legally outside of H1B that includes the low-skilled.
3. H1B was specifically designed for people who have skills that are difficult to grab from existing citizens, and is a requirement of the program.
4. This program has notoriously been abused as a way to pay less than the existing market of citizens would take for the job.
5. There are plenty of great people who should be here on an H1B (especially fresh grads), but are subject to a lottery that includes those who consultants have put in specifically to pay less. The abuse has displaced some who deserve it.
6. The premise of pre-reserving slots for H1B violates the entire spirit of the visa.
Re: Facebook Settles with U.S. Gov over Improperly Reserving Jobs for Immigrants
#139Earlier quoted context omitted.
I tend to think that almost everybody who can work in tech, where almost everybody is self-learned, already does so or will do so once they get old enough. It's not law or medicine that have high barriers to enter. I'm not saying you can't train literally anybody, but the bulk of the population of any given country is not fungible, so if you have a large tech industry you will inevitably hire massively abroad.
Tech isn't special, the population is absolutely fungible. There are tons of people who could work in tech but don't, I know many of them.
What makes tech special, compared to other high-paying sectors, is that there is almost no barrier to entry. You don't need to spend 10 years in medical school or to pass a bar exam: many tech professionals are self-taught and getting an entry level job takes 2 months of training to a person with the right aptitudes. If somebody is not in tech, it's not because I'm sponsoring a dude from Moldova, which is a pain and I'd really really prefer to hire a local, but more likely because either they don't like to work in tech or they don't have the cognitive ability to pursue a career in tech. Then there's the occasional guy with the right aptitudes and interests who couldn't start a career in tech because they were somehow unlucky, but we are talking about a miniscule fraction of the population that wouldn't be enough to make any difference, we don't have hundreds of thousands of very smart people on the dole because Moldovans stole their tech jobs.
This is why we have been making fun of those saying coal miners should learn to code.
Re: Facebook Settles with U.S. Gov over Improperly Reserving Jobs for Immigrants
#140Earlier quoted context omitted.
Tech isn't special, the population is absolutely fungible. There are tons of people who could work in tech but don't, I know many of them.
If anybody could work in tech or law or medicine, programmers and lawyers and doctors would be paid no more than cleaners, which can be replaced by a rando in a matter of days if not hours (read: the population is absolutely fungible). What makes tech special, compared to other high-paying sectors, is that there is almost no barrier to entry. You don't need to spend 10 years in medical school or to pass a bar exam: m…