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Facebook Settles with U.S. Gov over Improperly Reserving Jobs for Immigrants

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Re: Facebook Settles with U.S. Gov over Improperly Reserving Jobs for Immigrants

#101

Post by random314 »

kfprt wrote: post #25
davidw wrote: post #22

The elephant in the room: make it too hard to employ talented foreigners, and sooner or later companies will just open up offices there, rather than here. Remote work has only made this easier. I want smart, hard working, talented people coming to the US, myself.

And I want a low unemployment rate so I can pay less in taxes due to the costs of welfare.

Its funny to see a Republican talking point of "welfare queens" being turned around to support socialism for local citizens and keep hard working immigrants out :D

Re: Facebook Settles with U.S. Gov over Improperly Reserving Jobs for Immigrants

#102

Post by random314 »

kfprt wrote: post #74
reaperducer wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If they are unemployed then they are a net cost to me the taxpayer. Unemployment benefits are not paid for by you the taxpayer. They are paid by the employee during employment and by his former employer both during and after the employment period. At least that's how it was in the three states where I've opened companies.

While that is how unemployment insurance works, it is only temporary. Unemployed in the statistical sense means actively looking for work or on unemployment while in common parlance it refers to any person not currently employed. The costs of persons who are capable of being employed but are not come at great expense to the taxpayer. Foodstamps, housing assistance, healthcare and a myriad of other programs. It is far…

This is a super creative argument :D

Arguing for protectionism for yourself while complaining about the cost of protectionism for the unemployed!!

Who would be the "welfare queen" in this case. Is it those people who would have been unemployed with/without immigrants? OR Is it those who would have been employed only because of the presence of immigrants?

As brexiteers have shown, be careful what you wish for.

Re: Facebook Settles with U.S. Gov over Improperly Reserving Jobs for Immigrants

#103

Post by kfprt »

random314 wrote: post #101
kfprt wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And I want a low unemployment rate so I can pay less in taxes due to the costs of welfare.

Its funny to see a Republican talking point of "welfare queens" being turned around to support socialism for local citizens and keep hard working immigrants out :D

America is a nation of citizens, not an international charity.

Nor is it a corporatocracy in the legal sense.

Re: Facebook Settles with U.S. Gov over Improperly Reserving Jobs for Immigrants

#104

Post by random314 »

Levitz wrote: post #16
causi wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Facebook was doing the opposite. accused the social-media company of illegally reserving lucrative jobs for immigrant workers it was sponsoring for permanent residence instead of searching for and considering available U.S. workers.

I think everybody rightly assumes they reserved those spots precisely so they could underpay them.

Facebook pays new grads 200K and Staff engineers 700K. Had to call it underpayment.

Re: Facebook Settles with U.S. Gov over Improperly Reserving Jobs for Immigrants

#105

Post by kfprt »

closeparen wrote: post #99
kfprt wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Traits? What traits? Is the implication here that Americans aren't hard workers? That's the only interpretation that parses.

The intelligence and conscientiousness required to do high-end software engineering work may well be uniformly distributed. But I think we're probably at a point where there's more capital looking to hire people like this, than there are Americans like this.

So most Americans are lazy and stupid? Only 7.7% of Americans work in tech, what about the other 92.3%, what are they? Note that's 7.7% of the workforce not population. https://connect.comptia.org/content/research/cyberstates-202...

Re: Facebook Settles with U.S. Gov over Improperly Reserving Jobs for Immigrants

#106

Post by darth_avocado »

kfprt wrote: post #96
darth_avocado wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately a lot of these jobs aren’t exactly jobs that you can train someone from 0. These are jobs that require advanced education and the ability to be able to grasp certain concepts. They can’t just train anyone, but they can train university students in certain majors, which tbh they already do. All of these companies hire a TON of fresh grads, which is exactly what you’re saying, training someone to do the j…

I've yet to see an argument as to what the problem is that they can't fix in 6 years and an amount of money equal to a tech salary. It seems more likely the problem is that they want to underpay. If H1B was restricted to advanced degrees such as PhD's I doubt many people would complain. It would certainly be more in line with the intent of the program. Why more Americans don't pursue STEM PhD's is an excellent questi…

A couple of things. To get to STEM PhDs, you need STEM undergrad and master’s. If you look at what degrees people pursue, STEM degrees are less as compared to other majors. You can’t become a AI/ML PhD with an undergrad degree in History. That pipeline needs fixing.

Plus, getting college degrees is expensive. People who have a STEM degree only feel a need for advanced degree if their careers aren’t doing that well. Why would you give up a high paying job to go into debt? If things are doing great, why change anything?

And last but not the least, market dynamics. If you spend 5 years to get a PHD + 2 years of Master’s, you get a higher paying job than a fresh undergrad, but people with 7 yoe get paid a lot more than that because they develop a different set of skills by then. It isn’t a very lucrative proposition for most Americans.

Re: Facebook Settles with U.S. Gov over Improperly Reserving Jobs for Immigrants

#107

Post by darth_avocado »

kfprt wrote: post #100
darth_avocado wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because you’re assuming a static system. If everything stopped moving, you need x people, x us citizens that you could train, you had 6 years where the people stay with you, and you have a guarantee that after you put 6 years the people will stay with you till you get back what you invested in these people, then yes that is a viable situation. However, things move and move fast. And it’s not like companies don’t try…

If you have both money and time and can't/won't find a solution then your business deserves to fail. That's capitalism. If everyone plays by the same rules then there is no competitive disadvantage. I am an optimist and believe that American corporations will rise to the challenge of reduced H1B abuse.

Sure everyone will play by the same rules in the local market and there wont be competitive advantage. But the world simply wont wait around for it. You’ll have the same labor working on similar problems, just not in America. Just look at how big tiktok is now. Facebook cannot afford to not hire and stick to domestic competitors.

Re: Facebook Settles with U.S. Gov over Improperly Reserving Jobs for Immigrants

#108

Post by kfprt »

darth_avocado wrote: post #106
kfprt wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've yet to see an argument as to what the problem is that they can't fix in 6 years and an amount of money equal to a tech salary. It seems more likely the problem is that they want to underpay. If H1B was restricted to advanced degrees such as PhD's I doubt many people would complain. It would certainly be more in line with the intent of the program. Why more Americans don't pursue STEM PhD's is an excellent questi…

A couple of things. To get to STEM PhDs, you need STEM undergrad and master’s. If you look at what degrees people pursue, STEM degrees are less as compared to other majors. You can’t become a AI/ML PhD with an undergrad degree in History. That pipeline needs fixing. Plus, getting college degrees is expensive. People who have a STEM degree only feel a need for advanced degree if their careers aren’t doing that well. W…

I think that's an excellent description of the market dynamics at play. What I disagree with is the assumed lack of agency on the part of the buyers in the labor market. If the market determines it's not advantageous to pursue a STEM PhD then participants won't. The market is not broken, labor consumers simply need to offer a high enough price to incentivize more participants to acquire the STEM PhD's they desire.

Re: Facebook Settles with U.S. Gov over Improperly Reserving Jobs for Immigrants

#109

Post by [deleted] »

kfprt wrote: post #105
closeparen wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The intelligence and conscientiousness required to do high-end software engineering work may well be uniformly distributed. But I think we're probably at a point where there's more capital looking to hire people like this, than there are Americans like this.

So most Americans are lazy and stupid? Only 7.7% of Americans work in tech, what about the other 92.3%, what are they? Note that's 7.7% of the workforce not population. https://connect.comptia.org/content/research/cyberstates-202...

[deleted]

Re: Facebook Settles with U.S. Gov over Improperly Reserving Jobs for Immigrants

#110

Post by kfprt »

random314 wrote: post #102
kfprt wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While that is how unemployment insurance works, it is only temporary. Unemployed in the statistical sense means actively looking for work or on unemployment while in common parlance it refers to any person not currently employed. The costs of persons who are capable of being employed but are not come at great expense to the taxpayer. Foodstamps, housing assistance, healthcare and a myriad of other programs. It is far…

This is a super creative argument :D Arguing for protectionism for yourself while complaining about the cost of protectionism for the unemployed!! Who would be the "welfare queen" in this case. Is it those people who would have been unemployed with/without immigrants? OR Is it those who would have been employed only because of the presence of immigrants? As brexiteers have shown, be careful what you wish for.

"Promote the general welfare" is written in the constitution. It is my understanding that this is the point of government. https://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution/preamble
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