Dear procrastinator • Hacker News Board

Re: Dear procrastinator

#131

Post by Jem » Tue, Aug 16, 2011, 8:13 AM UTC

janjan wrote: post #115

Jem wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I grew up having to pull my weight. I'm one of 6 - it was just not possible for us all to get the attention we "deserved" without helping out. I was cooking meals at the age of 9 and helping out with the laundry shortly after. I cleaned my room, helped look after the pets, babysat younger siblings, etc. And yet I STILL hate having to wash clothes and cook for my family. I know that they need doing, but I too will oft…

> Stop looking for a cause Actually I stopped looking for the cause a few years ago because I found it ;) For me, finding the cause was very important, because for years I only knew what I did wrong but not why . I read a lot of books and articles about procrastination and never felt any connection to the explanations given there. Am I afraid of failure? Certainly not. am I presured from the outside into doing stuff…

Sounds to me like everything fell into place because you shifted the blame to someone else; absolved yourself of responsibility. IMO this achieves nothing in the long run.

But whatever makes you happy, I guess...

Re: Dear procrastinator

#132

Post by orangechicken » Tue, Aug 16, 2011, 8:44 AM UTC

aaronf wrote: post #91

silverbax88 wrote: post #22

I'm sorry to disagree, but I do. My own battle with procrastination is completely due to laziness. No one likes to do difficult things, and sometimes even things we kind of enjoy. The reality is that we, as humans, never procrastinate when we really, really want something. Not once in my life did I have to "trick" myself into playing a video game a few extra minutes or watch a big basketball game. In short, we accomp…

We've built LazyMeter to help with procrastination. We think the main cause of procrastination is an overhwelming to-do list, and therefore a lack of focus. When people know what they're doing, and have a goal for the day that they're working towards, they get a lot more done. I left Microsoft to build LazyMeter because I was a procrastinator and I thought I was lazy; I've learned that I was wrong - I was just overwh…

Off-main-topic, but I tried visiting your site (on my mobile) and was presented with only a login form. What was your purpose in linking to it? I was curious about the tool but will not likely return (if I even remember it later). A reminder (to myself mostly): You usually get one chance; make it count.

Re: Dear procrastinator

#133

Post by goblin89 » Tue, Aug 16, 2011, 9:57 AM UTC

TeMPOraL wrote: post #17

Wow. That actually resonates with me much better than anything I've read on procrastination so far. I am burning lot of my mental cycles on thinking about my own procrastination, and it crossed my mind that when I start to do things that I'm (in broad sense) forced to - by my boss, lecturer or even myself, I feel like loosing some kind of self-awareness, control of my life... I never pin-pointed the feeling exactly,…

Hey, your post resonates with me as well.

I think, the key is to go level up and turn it around. It's not lecturer or boss who force you, it's you who are using them to get something you want. (Here, ‘something you want’ might include money, knowledge, a degree, but must necessarily include plain ‘having fun’ (because the validity of any other reason is questionable—and when you question the validity of reasons to do something, you're procrastinating).)

In other words, a problem of procrastination stops to exist once you start enjoying the process. The GTD tools problem gets partly solved as well: you surely are going to get things done if you enjoy the process (although if it's hard to remember all of these things, then some sort of todo list might be handy, you'll know when you start actually needing it).

I'm not saying this is simple (although I'm sure it is, in some sense) or I know how to do this, simply suggesting that thinking about how to enjoy doing things might be a more productive way to burn your cycles than thinking about how to stop procrastinating. The former problem is clearly stated (which is important, prevents losing focus when you're thinking a lot about it) and is likely simpler to solve.

* * *

IMO, many successful people actually do use productivity tricks without knowing it. It's implicit in their life, so they don't talk about it. Many of these tricks may not like like tricks at all. And even if people did talk about them… The real productivity trick is not the trick, it's your habit, tricks become truly effective when you do them naturally, without thinking. Pick good habits. [1]

[1] Relevant: http://lesswrong.com/lw/60y/action_and_habit/

Re: Dear procrastinator

#134

Post by horofox » Tue, Aug 16, 2011, 11:27 AM UTC

Actually, I know the problem:

It's with our right hemisphere, it's the one of you that is creative, that had hopes as a child to really do something useful for the world, the one that is out of control, seeks freedom.

The thing is that you aren't doing art/music(that's what people frequently do with it) and art/music is well known as freedom, what you are probably doing is:

A stupid startup to proove yourself, make some money and shit. Even if you own twitter or facebook, it's still shit compared to art, believe me. It's shit.

If you were doing something that would eradicate some sickness in africa and would save millions of people or had anything altruist in it, i doubt your heart wouldn't be pumping from the second you started.

Believe me, it's because what you do is shit, your brain knows and it wants to free you from this bullshit.

I don't procrastinate to wash dishes for my girlfriend, no matter how much it's boring, i fucking love her. But you know, if i had to wash it for ME, i would procrastinate all day. You need love.

Re: Dear procrastinator

#135

Post by jodrellblank » Tue, Aug 16, 2011, 12:32 PM UTC

kevinstubbs wrote: post #116

silverbax88 wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anything that we perceive as hard or boring is a task for procrastination. We simply don't want to do it because it isn't fun. I am not a games tester; therefore video games are still fun. But when I was first starting as a programmer, I did it because I was having a blast, and it made me successful. It has nothing to do with being told to do something, and it has everything to do with our brains - especially creativ…

Many times, my cause for procrastinating is usually due to a sense of fear. That if I start, I will not know what to do, or that the direction I must take on a task is too unclear for me to feel comfortable starting... Many times, the quickest way to fix this is just to write a todo list and do a few items. Every few hours I'll just compile a new list and keep going off that.

That if I start, I will not know what to do, or that the direction I must take on a task is too unclear for me to feel comfortable starting...

That doesn't sound like a well examined state; go looking for why you fear "not knowing what to do", there's bound to be one or many things hiding behind that description.

Re: Dear procrastinator

#136

Post by jodrellblank » Tue, Aug 16, 2011, 12:36 PM UTC

mc32 wrote: post #96

gexla wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Going along with the thread that was started here. When I play a video game, it's the game I want to play at the time I want to play it and with the goal that I picked for that session. If I have to review a video game then I have all these choices largely made for me. The goal is to review the game rather than go for whatever I might want out of the game. The reality of our lives force us to do things which don't al…

I think, for me, procrastination has to do with projecting complication into things. So, if I want to cook something new, I imagine needing to find the perfect recipe with the perfect ingredients, for example. But, then, there are times when I just decide to do it even if I'm missing ingredients or have not come across a recipe which makes sense to me. Powering thru. I think for the video game tester, if I were them,…

I think, for me, procrastination has to do with projecting complication into things. So, if I want to cook something new, I imagine needing to find the perfect recipe with the perfect ingredients, for example.

Need to... or else what? Instead of forcing onwards, ask yourself why you don't want to go forwards...

Re: Dear procrastinator

#137

Post by jodrellblank » Tue, Aug 16, 2011, 12:50 PM UTC

VaporNoob wrote: post #103

asclepiades wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think we should also discuss two widely recognized fears which, in my experience, are frequently related to procrastination: fear of failure and fear of success. Both usually go, somewhat amusingly, hand in hand, but I think they should be linked to the "mastery" discussed in the topic. Fear of both failure and success are, in short, fear of change, fear of losing control, fear of not being a master anymore. It is…

I agree with this, but would also like to expand on it with something I've observed in myself and others that I believe is the root of fearing failure/success. That thing is a lack of comfort with vulnerability. I believe this is because most of us hold onto dysfunctional value systems and we also live in reactionary state where we make decisions based on avoiding invalidation from our peers and authority figures, ra…

This is good. Brains are engines of prediction and they avoid doing things which will cause us harm.

The only answers to procrastination are "are you motivated to do it?" and "is that overridden by a negative motivation against doing it"?

Avoiding invalidation is much more of a strong and personal negative override than I ever thought years ago. It can hit you as the OP implies - fear that if I'm not in control of my life people will think I'm a weak and submissive person, or if I'm not in control thats like my childhood and makes menfeel invalidated by comparison to a helpless child - or like other people in this thread are replying - fears about doing something well (will people think me a swot?) or doing badly (my spouse will scorn me?) or all sorts.

The most common factor among the replies here is stopping asking he question "what bad thing am I avoiding by procrastination" far far too soon, and/or accepting far too vague and unhelpful 'answers' as soon as they are thought of without realising they are unhelpful.

Re: Dear procrastinator

#138

Post by silverbax88 » Tue, Aug 16, 2011, 5:13 PM UTC

sdoctor wrote: post #128

silverbax88 wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of the best anti-procrastination hacks I ever heard was right here on HN: When you absolutely cannot get motivated to finish something, make a detailed list of exactly the steps needed to finish the task/project. Once the list is complete you will automatically begin working on the first step. Not my idea but it works for me 100% of the time.

how often do you procrastinate on making the list? by the time you've started making the list, you weren't going to procrastinate any longer anyway.

it turns out, never. Making a list is one of the things we, or at least I, do as 'busy work' to avoid real work. In this case, it turns out that once we have a detailed step-by-step course to resolution, hard tasks suddenly seem quite easy.

Re: Dear procrastinator

#139

Post by jodrellblank » Tue, Aug 16, 2011, 6:33 PM UTC

orillian wrote: post #80

jodrellblank wrote: post #32

That doesn't seem to answer anything. If human beings procrastinate to feel in control, what of soldiers? They can be happy and fulfilled, work damn hard, and be only doing exactly what they are told. The next question, for you perhaps, is "what do you fear so much about the idea of not being in control of your life?"

A soldier is programmed to be the way they are, their lack of procrastination is beat into them as a response to fear, primarily the fear of death. Do what you’re told or your squad mates will die, your commanding officer will die, and by extension "you" will die. Death is one of the ultimate motivators. That said you get a soldier outside the army life and he finds ways and methods of procrastination that rival the…

I have always fought with procrastination, and it always has boiled down to feeling forced to do things. If something is not happening in the moment, if it’s not feel spontaneous then I balk at doing it.

That's no more an answer than saying if a painting is has too many chairs in it you balk at looking at it. Balking at not-spontaneous things is a description of what you do, but not why you do that behaviour, right?

that procrastination will flare into an outright rebellion against doing that “THING” that is “required” of me.

This is not explaining that you procrastinate because you feel controlled, this is observing that you feel controlled and observing that you procrastinate, both when (something unspecified) is the case.

Feeling controlled -> procrastination is not a link which must exist, is it? You can imagine people without that link, right?

Re: Dear procrastinator

#140

Post by jodrellblank » Tue, Aug 16, 2011, 6:34 PM UTC

orillian wrote: post #80

jodrellblank wrote: post #32

That doesn't seem to answer anything. If human beings procrastinate to feel in control, what of soldiers? They can be happy and fulfilled, work damn hard, and be only doing exactly what they are told. The next question, for you perhaps, is "what do you fear so much about the idea of not being in control of your life?"

A soldier is programmed to be the way they are, their lack of procrastination is beat into them as a response to fear, primarily the fear of death. Do what you’re told or your squad mates will die, your commanding officer will die, and by extension "you" will die. Death is one of the ultimate motivators. That said you get a soldier outside the army life and he finds ways and methods of procrastination that rival the…

I have always fought with procrastination, and it always has boiled down to feeling forced to do things. If something is not happening in the moment, if it’s not feel spontaneous then I balk at doing it.

That's no more an answer than saying if a painting is has too many chairs in it you balk at looking at it. Balking at not-spontaneous things is a description of what you do, but not why you do that behaviour, right?

that procrastination will flare into an outright rebellion against doing that “THING” that is “required” of me.

This is not explaining that you procrastinate because you feel controlled, this is observing that you feel controlled and observing that you procrastinate, both when (something unspecified) is the case.

Feeling controlled -> procrastination is not a link which must exist, is it? You can imagine people without that link, right?