Apple’s new M1 Pro and M1 Max processors • Hacker News Board

Re: Apple’s new M1 Pro and M1 Max processors

#821

Post by concinds » Tue, Oct 19, 2021, 6:06 AM UTC

kmonsen wrote: post #813

sulam wrote: post #626

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, M1 has been out for a while now, with HN doom and gloom about not being able to put enough memory into them. Real world usage has demonstrated far less memory usage than people expected (I don't know why, maybe someone paid attention and can say). The result is that 32G is a LOT of memory for an M1-based laptop, and 64G is only needed for very specific workloads I would expect.

Or like games, even semi-casual ones. Civ6 would not load at all on my mac mini. Also had to fairly frequently close browser windows as I ran out of memory.

I couldn't load Civ6 until I verified game files in Steam, and now it works pretty perfectly. I'm on 8GB and always have Chrome, Apple Music and OmniFocus running alongside.

Re: Apple’s new M1 Pro and M1 Max processors

#822

Post by theshrike79 » Tue, Oct 19, 2021, 6:17 AM UTC

soheil wrote: post #475

lisper wrote: post #105

"Apple’s Commitment to the Environment" > Today, Apple is carbon neutral for global corporate operations, and by 2030, plans to have net-zero climate impact across the entire business, which includes manufacturing supply chains and all product life cycles. This also means that every chip Apple creates, from design to manufacturing, will be 100 percent carbon neutral. But what they won't do is put the chip in an expan…

They would make less money if they made the chip repairable. This doesn't have to make them evil. Apple being more profitable also means they can lower the cost and push the technological advancement envelop forward faster. Every year we will get that much faster chips. This is good for everyone. This doesn't mean Apple's carbon footprint has to suffer. If Apple does a better job recycling old Macbooks than your aver…

> They would make less money if they made the chip repairable

How would a 5 nanometer chip be "repairable"? Who would be able to repair such a chip and what would the tool cost be?

Re: Apple’s new M1 Pro and M1 Max processors

#823

Post by theshrike79 » Tue, Oct 19, 2021, 6:20 AM UTC

DeathArrow wrote: post #820

I am not interested in Apple's ecosystem. While I stay with X86 I wonder if and when AMD and Intel will catch up. Or if another ARM chip maker will release a chip as good but without tying it to a proprietary system.

This is a chicken and egg problem.

No one will bother to make an ARM chip for "PCs" if there is no OS to run on it. MS won't fully port Windows to ARM with a Rosetta-like layer unless there is an ARM computer to run it.

Yes, Linux can run on anything, but it won't sell enough chips to make creating a whole new ARM computer line profitable.

Re: Apple’s new M1 Pro and M1 Max processors

#824

Post by murukesh_s » Tue, Oct 19, 2021, 6:25 AM UTC

patall wrote: post #389

sudhirj wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All of my Apple laptops (maybe even all their products) see about 5 to 8 years of service. Sometimes with me, sometimes as hand-me-downs. So they’ve been pretty excellent at not winding up in the trash. Even software updates often stretch as far back as 5 year old models, so they’re pretty good with this.

And here I am sitting at my 2011 Dell Latitude wondering what is so special about that. My sis had my 2013 Sony Duo but that's now become unusable with its broken, built-in battery. Yes, 5 to 8 years of service is nice, but not great or out of norm for a $1000+ laptop.

I guess 2011 Latitudes were the pro models? they were built like a tank.. not anymore i guess

Re: Apple’s new M1 Pro and M1 Max processors

#825

Post by theshrike79 » Tue, Oct 19, 2021, 6:26 AM UTC

jeswin wrote: post #114

_the_inflator wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that Apple took a subtle, not so subtle stand: power consumption has to do with environmental impact.

Apple almost single-handedly made computing devices non-repairable or upgradable; across their own product line and the industry in general due to their outsized influence.

I'm still daily driving a 2015MBP. Got the battery replaced, free under warranty, a few years ago. Running lates MacOS without any issues

The phones in my family are an iPhone 6S, iPhone 8 and an iPhone XS. All running the latest iOS. The 6S got a battery swap for 50€, others still going strong.

Similar with tablets, we have three and the latest one is a 2017 iPad Pro. All running the latest iPadOS.

Stuff doesn't need to be repairable and upgradable if it can outlast the competition by a factor of two while still staying on the latest official OS update.

Can't do that with any Android device. A 6 year old PC laptop might still be relevant though.

Re: Apple’s new M1 Pro and M1 Max processors

#826

Post by easygenes » Tue, Oct 19, 2021, 6:30 AM UTC

SpelingBeeChamp wrote: post #557

skohan wrote: post #290

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there a tradeoff in terms of power consumption?

Huge, apparently. I just spent a bit over $7,000 for a top-spec model and was surprised to read that it comes with a 140 watt power adapter. Prior to my current M1 MBP, my daily driver was a maxed-out 16" MBP. It's a solid computer, but it functions just as well as a space heater. And its power adapter is only 100 watts.

I have a top-spec 15” MBP that was the last release just before 16”. It has 100W supply and it’s easy to have total draw more than that (so pulling from the battery while plugged in) while running heavy things like 3D games. I’ve seen around 140W peak. So a 150W supply seems prudent.

Re: Apple’s new M1 Pro and M1 Max processors

#827

Post by grecy » Tue, Oct 19, 2021, 6:34 AM UTC

sharkjacobs wrote: post #302

This is roughly in line with what I expected, given the characteristics of the M1. It's still very power efficient and cool, has more CPU cores, a lot more GPU cores, wider memory controller, and presumably it has unchanged single core performance. Apple clearly doesn't mean these to be a high performance desktop offering though because they didn't even offer an Mac Mini SKU with the new M1s. But what I'm really curi…

I think it likely that Apple will just ramp up what they've been doing so far - make an "M1 Ultra" that has 32 or 64 or even 128 cores of CPU, at least that many GPU and scale the memory and I/O in the same way. Put the one with fewer cores in the iMac Pro and the one with the most cores in the Mac Pro.

Every couple of years when they upgrade again every product they make will go up to M2, then M3, etc. etc.

Re: Apple’s new M1 Pro and M1 Max processors

#828

Post by [deleted] » Tue, Oct 19, 2021, 6:51 AM UTC

wmf wrote: post #410

sounds wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just to underscore this, memory physically closer to the cores has improved tRAS times measured in nanoseconds. This has the secondary effect of boosting the performance of the last-level cache since it can fill lines on a cache miss much faster. The step up from DDR4 to DDR5 will help fill cache misses that are predictable, but everybody uses a prefetcher already, the net effect of DDR5 is mostly just better efficie…

improved tRAS times Has this been documented anywhere? What timings are Apple using?

[deleted]

Re: Apple’s new M1 Pro and M1 Max processors

#829

Post by rocqua » Tue, Oct 19, 2021, 6:52 AM UTC

dragontamer wrote: post #465

lillecarl wrote: post #464

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doesn't prefetching data into the cache more quickly assist in execution speed here?

How do you prefetch "node->next" where "node" is in a linked list? Answer: you literally can't. And that's why this kind of coding style will forever be latency bound. EDIT: Prefetching works when the address can be predicted ahead of time. For example, when your CPU-core is reading "array", then "array+8", then "array+16", you can be pretty damn sure the next thing it wants to read is "array+24", so you prefetch tha…

You prefetch by having node->next as close as possible to node. You do that by using an allocator that tries very hard to ensure this.

Doesn't work that well for GC but for specific workloads it can work very nicely.

Re: Apple’s new M1 Pro and M1 Max processors

#830

Post by 2muchcoffeeman » Tue, Oct 19, 2021, 6:55 AM UTC

josephg wrote: post #720

dzhiurgis wrote: post #716

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah I'd prefer that. Converted everything to quality 6ft braided usb-c cables, bought a separate multiport charger. Will have to sell original one...

Just in case people missed it - the magsafe cable connects to the power supply via usb-c. So (in theory) there's nothing special about the charger that you couldn't do with a 3rd party charger, or a multiport charger or something like that.

Might be a power limitation. I have an XPS 17 which only runs at full performance and charges the battery with the supplied 130W charger. USB C is only specced to 100W. I can still do most things on the spare USB C charger I have.