1k Netflix employees threaten work stoppage over Dave Chappelle • Hacker News Board

Re: 1k Netflix employees threaten work stoppage over Dave Chappelle

#221

Post by arthurcolle » Tue, Oct 19, 2021, 12:21 AM UTC

krainboltgreene wrote: post #191

arthurcolle wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Look at the booming US steel industry we have today! /s

I know this is probably an off-hand comment from someone who doesn't know US unionization history very well, but it's hilarious still. That we even still have any steel production is because of unionization. That corporations were allowed to outsource is because of anti-unionization efforts.

I am familiar with unions and union history. Also union busting efforts and the growth of unions until the 80s during the Reagan era - but to compare a factory worker or a longshoreman to software engineers feels like a facetious comparison with little merit IMO.

I worked at a retail job briefly after high school and it was a joke that I had to pay union due by law in the state of Maryland.

Software engineers are politically probably one of the strongest positioned labor groups in modern history, up their with probably high finance and heirs of huge fortunes. The fact of the matter is that most people don't want to work the vast majority of union jobs and simultaneously, corporations are willing to offshore many of these labor requirements in part due to the cost burden. Sure, management takes home a lot, but honestly I'm unsympathetic to most union industries and I shouldn't have to pay another tax to some obscure group to handle issues.

Re: 1k Netflix employees threaten work stoppage over Dave Chappelle

#222

Post by bawolff » Tue, Oct 19, 2021, 5:54 AM UTC

bko wrote: post #203

bawolff wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you really believe your mission unites your employees? Maybe if you're curing cancer or something, but for most tech workers working on some generic CRUD app, they pay lip service to being motivated by the "mission", but settle for something mildly interesting that hopefully isn't actively doing evil in the world. Your employees trade time and skill for money. Hearts and souls is a much less common trade.

It doesn't matter what the mission is so much as there is one. If the mission is build a beautiful website or a well designed flexible backend, then that's fine. In that case we come in every day and drive towards that.

Perhaps we're using the word "mission" differently. I would call that a goal, and i agree its important.

In most places i have worked, the mission has been some high minded rhetoric about how we're going to change the world for the better that is really disconnected from what we actually do.

Re: 1k Netflix employees threaten work stoppage over Dave Chappelle

#223

Post by gremlinsinc » Tue, Oct 19, 2021, 5:56 AM UTC

t0mbstone wrote: post #216

native_samples wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let them go or plan to phase them out of the firm regardless of what happens? These sorts of events keep happening. At this point the pattern is very clear: if you hire very left wing employees then you're building the firm on an unexploded bomb. You can't predict what will cause it to go off or when it will occur, but it seems likely that at some point it will. How do you as an executive build robustness to this typ…

Maybe companies should adopt a practice of only hiring middle-of-the-road rational, calm, level-headed people, instead of people who are far left or far right?

The govt should do this, but then we'd have no police force...

Re: 1k Netflix employees threaten work stoppage over Dave Chappelle

#224

Post by pseudo0 » Tue, Oct 19, 2021, 7:51 AM UTC

lkey wrote: post #218

pseudo0 wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's rather disingenuous to point at the increase in murders like that, given how 2020 saw a huge spike in murders year over year for the general population. So 44 trans people were murdered in 2020, out of a total of 21,570 in the US [0]. Estimates for the trans population range from 0.39% [1] to 0.58% [2]. That's about 2-3x lower than we'd expect, as a population of that size with an equivalent murder rate would ha…

So sure, mentioning deaths is inflammatory, but not without context. It was in reply to the parent comment's (and Chappelle's) narrative of 'the trans community has somehow been too successful'. Additionally, a black trans death is precisely what Chappelle used to justify his own monologue. Analyses like you just did do feel authoritative, but it is important to remember that HRC only began tracking these things in 2…

Even if a community did have a higher homicide victimization rate than average, it could still punch well above its weight in terms of Twitter mobbing. Those things aren't somehow mutually exclusive. And Chappelle's anecdote was about a black trans person who committed suicide after being marginalized by their community, and I don't think anyone is disputing that trans people disproportionately struggle with mental health issues and suicide.

> Given that the majority in the murdered trans population we are discussing are black trans women, not factoring that in will give you your counterintuitive conclusion.

I deliberately didn't try to break it down by gender because of the inherent issues with comparing someone who has biologically and socially developed as a male (to varying degrees, eg. someone who begins transitioning at 15 is going to be different than someone who starts at 35) to natal women. It is notable though that if you look at the stats, the victimization rate for black trans women falls in between the stats for black men (much higher) and black women (much lower). It would be interesting to look at other indicators like automobile accidents that show significant gender divergence to see if a similar pattern emerges.

> I can't make that fbi website spit out better numbers, but the fact that the fbi doesn't even have an incentive to track this kind of thing is telling all by itself.

Unfortunately I don't think we'll get better stats anytime soon. Race and gender are fairly easy to track because they get marked down on various forms of ID, but there is no equivalent "trans: Y/N" anywhere. And many trans people would vociferously oppose something like that. The result is that police will likely only include trans identification in case documents if it is relevant, eg. with a hate crime.

Re: 1k Netflix employees threaten work stoppage over Dave Chappelle

#225

Post by native_samples » Tue, Oct 19, 2021, 7:54 AM UTC

t0mbstone wrote: post #216

native_samples wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let them go or plan to phase them out of the firm regardless of what happens? These sorts of events keep happening. At this point the pattern is very clear: if you hire very left wing employees then you're building the firm on an unexploded bomb. You can't predict what will cause it to go off or when it will occur, but it seems likely that at some point it will. How do you as an executive build robustness to this typ…

Maybe companies should adopt a practice of only hiring middle-of-the-road rational, calm, level-headed people, instead of people who are far left or far right?

Problem is, how do you know? It's not like people talk about their leanings during technical interviews. I'm sure a set of conventions and tactics will evolve over time to handle this.

Re: 1k Netflix employees threaten work stoppage over Dave Chappelle

#226

Post by ashwagary » Tue, Oct 19, 2021, 7:55 AM UTC

abandonliberty wrote: post #186

birthday wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn't, but the social virus that is wokeism labels you as phobic and will make you PAY for being one. Wokeness is a nasty social virus that has infected the USA, and it slowly but surely is causing the USA to implode.

It's just bullying. "Wokeism" gives bullies the opportunity to bully in socially acceptable ways. Note the comments in this thread defending the mobs. If wokeism wasn't around, they'd find something else to oppress people. Ironically, these people would've been _great_ racists in a different time. The problem is bullying. I don't know why it's so hard for people to recognize when they agree with the bully, but these…

Being "woke" is black freedom fighter slang that described an understanding of the case for reparations and police reform. It is being bastardized by people with an agenda in the dominant white society with the help of the media to undermine and/or distract from that movement.

Understand that by misusing that slang, you are also assisting them in doing the same. People that understand the actual definition correctly expect there is malicious ulterior intent when it is wrongly invoked, like in your earlier comments.

Re: 1k Netflix employees threaten work stoppage over Dave Chappelle

#227

Post by xpaqui » Tue, Oct 19, 2021, 9:39 AM UTC

terminatornet wrote: post #220

xpaqui wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, we shouldn't allow people to have the wrong opinions. If these people use Dave as the beacon for anti-trans opinions, the person who created a trust fund for the daughter of trans person who killed herself, maybe they aren't that good at anti-trans, just saying.

That's a good start, hopefully he'll be using some of that $60 million he's made from his netflix specials to support other trans people, not just 1 person he knew

He's not helping her family because she was trans, hes helping because they had a human connection.

This, this is what I don't agree, the myopic idea where people deserve help or spite depending on some tribal characteristic.

Re: 1k Netflix employees threaten work stoppage over Dave Chappelle

#228

Post by t0mbstone » Tue, Oct 19, 2021, 7:38 PM UTC

native_samples wrote: post #225

t0mbstone wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe companies should adopt a practice of only hiring middle-of-the-road rational, calm, level-headed people, instead of people who are far left or far right?

Problem is, how do you know? It's not like people talk about their leanings during technical interviews. I'm sure a set of conventions and tactics will evolve over time to handle this.

A background check that includes even a cursory review of the candidate's public social media presence would probably go pretty far in terms of weeding out the most extreme right or left wing people (who often tend to be vocal with their viewpoints).

There's a reason why I never post ANYTHING political on my public social media anymore. I keep all my controversial opinions limited to my alternate profiles.

Re: 1k Netflix employees threaten work stoppage over Dave Chappelle

#229

Post by lkey » Tue, Oct 19, 2021, 9:04 PM UTC

pseudo0 wrote: post #224

lkey wrote: post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So sure, mentioning deaths is inflammatory, but not without context. It was in reply to the parent comment's (and Chappelle's) narrative of 'the trans community has somehow been too successful'. Additionally, a black trans death is precisely what Chappelle used to justify his own monologue. Analyses like you just did do feel authoritative, but it is important to remember that HRC only began tracking these things in 2…

Even if a community did have a higher homicide victimization rate than average, it could still punch well above its weight in terms of Twitter mobbing. Those things aren't somehow mutually exclusive. And Chappelle's anecdote was about a black trans person who committed suicide after being marginalized by their community, and I don't think anyone is disputing that trans people disproportionately struggle with mental h…

    Even if a community did have a higher homicide victimization rate than average, it could still punch well above its weight in terms of Twitter mobbing.

Even if I ceded that trans people are uniquely online and 'too strong' on twitter, and I additionally cede that somehow that also means 'they' (and not a few individuals) are uniquely willing to kill their own in the name of internet points, that doesn't change the fact that the group is currently marginalized, and 'wins' online don't actually translate to acceptance in the real world.

You needn't look far to find laws being passed that specifically target and exclude the trans community.

Painting a marginalized community as vicious enough to 'eat their own' paves the way for very ugly rhetoric that we've seen with other marginalized groups the world over. Chappelle especially is smart enough to know this.

And indeed, from reading the comments here and elsewhere, it seems that whatever empathy he attempted to bring to the special, the modal comments on his work looks like this:

    'I prefer the old skinny Chapelle. Black white supremacist is a killer. However, I must confess, I agree with him and J.K. Rowling on this one. Being trans women doesn’t make you a woman.'

The HN sentiment above this comment seems to be 'wokeism' is destroying the fabric of America, trans folks on twitter are 'woke', and bullies, and the real problem.

    I don't think anyone is disputing that trans people disproportionately struggle with mental health issues and suicide.

I don't dispute it, but also, I think being kicked out by your family, not being able to get a job, having poor access to (or being afraid to ask for) healthcare, or being assaulted, etc... e.g. the effects of being marginalized, have a dramatic impact on mental health even without considering what it's like to be trans in isolation. I've met many folks(trans and not) in situations like this and the despair can be palpable.

This review seems to be speculating in the same direction: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7317390/ Furthermore, compared with trans men, the societal position of trans women is lower (31, 32). In the Netherlands, between 1972 and 2017 suicide rates showed a fluctuating course. Our finding of a slightly decreasing suicide risk in Dutch trans women may confer some hope. Recent studies showed an increase in societal acceptance toward lesbian, gay, bisexual, and transgender people (31), and indications of an increase in social‐economic status over the years (33). ... Although the literature on suicide risk factors is comprehensive, and particular suicidal risk factors like verbal victimization, physical and sexual violence, and the absence of social support (9, 34), may apply for transgender people in all stages of transitioning, it seems clinically highly relevant to understand and explore possible differences in motives and risk factors in the different stages of treatment.

    Race and gender are fairly easy to track because they get marked down on various forms of ID

It's my understanding that changing gender and name on ids is quite common, but often legally fraught. That kind of change effectively serves as as 'trans/enby: Y/N' where it is allowed at all. But yes, I don't think putting that explicitly on an ID is a safe idea.

Re: 1k Netflix employees threaten work stoppage over Dave Chappelle

#230

Post by DrSiemer » Wed, Oct 20, 2021, 7:49 AM UTC

ashwagary wrote: post #226

abandonliberty wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's just bullying. "Wokeism" gives bullies the opportunity to bully in socially acceptable ways. Note the comments in this thread defending the mobs. If wokeism wasn't around, they'd find something else to oppress people. Ironically, these people would've been _great_ racists in a different time. The problem is bullying. I don't know why it's so hard for people to recognize when they agree with the bully, but these…

Being "woke" is black freedom fighter slang that described an understanding of the case for reparations and police reform. It is being bastardized by people with an agenda in the dominant white society with the help of the media to undermine and/or distract from that movement. Understand that by misusing that slang, you are also assisting them in doing the same. People that understand the actual definition correctly…

Sorry to inform you this original meaning is lost.

The woke virus is everywhere now and the only thing it means, to people here in the Netherlands at least, is "being absurdly sensitive about anything that could possibly hurt any groups feelings".