Colin Powell has died • Hacker News Board

Re: Colin Powell has died

#181

Post by nradov » Mon, Oct 18, 2021, 3:27 PM UTC

geofft wrote: post #128

woodpanel wrote: post #101

[flagged]

Yeah, it's a pretty deadly disease. Vaccines work by preparing your body to fight a disease more easily if you get it. They don't physically prevent you from getting it in the first place (that's the effect of physical barriers - distance, masks, etc. - as well as a secondary effect of other people being vaccinated and having reduced viral loads and coughing less). Your body still has to fight off the infection with…

I encourage everyone to get vaccinated if they can, but even without vaccination only a tiny fraction of cases among healthy people in their 20s and 30s get on ventilators. The CDC estimated the hospitalization rate in the 18-49 age group at 2.5%.

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/cases-updates/burd...

The majority of those hospitalized cases aren't really "healthy". Most suffer from serious co-morbid conditions such as obesity or diabetes.

https://www.wfae.org/health/2021-09-30/novant-says-9-of-10-c...

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/need-extra-precaut...

And only a small fraction of hospitalized cases are treated with mechanical ventilation. It's considered a salvage treatment when all other treatments have failed.

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/covid19/nhcs/intubation-ventilator-...

Re: Colin Powell has died

#182

Post by 1cvmask » Mon, Oct 18, 2021, 3:30 PM UTC

cainxinth wrote: post #136

_3ddw wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was 17 when we invaded Afghanistan and 19 when we invaded Iraq. Through the lead-up to both of those conflicts I remember watching scores of demonstrators marching outside the White House, chanting slogans against the wars. What did they know that Colin Powell did not?

I was a lowly undergrad polisci major at the time. I never demonstrated but it was clear as day to me that the preemptive invasion of Iraq would not be the cut and dry operation it was sold as -- and I can prove that I'm not claiming 20:20 hindsight because I kept the essay I wrote after hearing conservative NYTimes columnist William Safire speak at my school promoting the invasion in the weeks leading up to it. An e…

They knew Iraq did not have WMDs. The invasion would not happened if it did.

The rhetoric had changed from WMDs to regime change just before the invasion of Iraq.

Also the character assasination of Kofi Annan (and stories on his son) by Western media at the time for an illegal war (according to the UN rules) was amazing.

The famous John Bolton “Libya model” of disarmament comment comes to mind.

Re: Colin Powell has died

#183

Post by ASalazarMX » Mon, Oct 18, 2021, 3:37 PM UTC

CapricornNoble wrote: post #24

Colin Powell is a textbook case of "A thousand 'Atta-boys!' and one fuck-up!". He joined the Army in the 1950s, served through 2 tours in Vietnam, and made it all the way to Chairman of the Joint Chiefs by the end of the 1980s, leading the military through Operation Desert Storm and the post-Soviet era. That's a rare career for ANY American, let alone a black one. But all that went "poof!" after his shameful performa…

> That's a rare career for ANY American, let alone a black one.

I had to do an image search of him because until now, I didn't think of him as "black". He's certainly mixed race, which would make him black and white. Is it usual in USA to call people black if they kinda look black?

Edit: according to Wikipedia, his ancestry is mixed Scottish and African, parents immigrants from Jamaica. He was raised in South Bronx, so he's culturally black even if he doesn't look that black.

Re: Colin Powell has died

#184

Post by Anthony-G » Mon, Oct 18, 2021, 3:38 PM UTC

Kafkish wrote: post #161

ekianjo wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's also not forget that he was not alone to push for the war. For younger people out there, the New York Times, of all media sources, was warmongering from Day 1.

Not just the NYT. Every major news org, including right-wing radio shows, were beating the drums of war. If you were against the war effort, like I was, you were called "anti-American".

From what I can remember, the notable exception was Knight Ridder¹ who drew a lot of flak for investigating the fabricated stories being used to justify attacking Iraq.

In Ireland, the major media outlets accepted (mostly, uncritically) the claims of the neo-cons (I don’t remember them treating seriously the reports of UN weapons inspectors who were actually on the ground in Iraq). The only dissenting voice I remember in the mainstream media was Robert Fisk, writing for the British Independent.

¹ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knight_Ridder#Iraq_War

Re: Colin Powell has died

#185

Post by jl6 » Mon, Oct 18, 2021, 3:45 PM UTC

sofixa wrote: post #171

betterunix2 wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess you and I must disagree. Either you think war crimes are no big deal, because according to your broad reading of "conspiracy against peace" pretty much anyone who participates in any war is a criminal, or else you think there is no justifiable war whatsoever. Personally I think WWII was entirely justified, that the Allies had to win that war, and that fighting to win meant that large numbers of people would d…

I'll quote the definition for you: > crime against peace, in international law, is "planning, preparation, initiation, or waging of wars of aggression, or a war in violation of international treaties, agreements or assurances, or participation in a common plan or conspiracy for the accomplishment of any of the foregoing".[1] This definition of crimes against peace was first incorporated into the Nuremberg Principles…

Note that in all the various calls for war crime prosecutions for the Iraq war, Colin Powell is rarely if ever named as one of the accused.

Re: Colin Powell has died

#186

Post by [deleted] » Mon, Oct 18, 2021, 3:49 PM UTC

cainxinth wrote: post #136

_3ddw wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was 17 when we invaded Afghanistan and 19 when we invaded Iraq. Through the lead-up to both of those conflicts I remember watching scores of demonstrators marching outside the White House, chanting slogans against the wars. What did they know that Colin Powell did not?

I was a lowly undergrad polisci major at the time. I never demonstrated but it was clear as day to me that the preemptive invasion of Iraq would not be the cut and dry operation it was sold as -- and I can prove that I'm not claiming 20:20 hindsight because I kept the essay I wrote after hearing conservative NYTimes columnist William Safire speak at my school promoting the invasion in the weeks leading up to it. An e…

[deleted]

Re: Colin Powell has died

#187

Post by csw-001 » Mon, Oct 18, 2021, 4:09 PM UTC

forgotmypw17 wrote: post #22

13 Rules of Leadership First printed in the August 13, 1989, issue of Parade magazine,[41] these are Colin Powell's 13 Rules of Leadership.[42][43] It ain't as bad as you think. Get mad, then get over it. Avoid having your ego so close to your position that when your position falls, your ego goes with it. It can be done. Be careful what you choose. You may get it. Don't let adverse facts stand in the way of a good de…

Given the context, this list aged like milk.

"Don't let adverse facts stand in the way of a good decision." So predetermine a decision is "good", then ignore facts to the contrary? Is this what we saw on display at the UN?

Ignoring "adverse facts" seems to me to be one step away from simply adopting "alternative facts". Turns out it wasn't just one step away - it was a mere one administration away!

Re: Colin Powell has died

#188

Post by sofixa » Mon, Oct 18, 2021, 4:12 PM UTC

jl6 wrote: post #185

sofixa wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll quote the definition for you: > crime against peace, in international law, is "planning, preparation, initiation, or waging of wars of aggression, or a war in violation of international treaties, agreements or assurances, or participation in a common plan or conspiracy for the accomplishment of any of the foregoing".[1] This definition of crimes against peace was first incorporated into the Nuremberg Principles…

Note that in all the various calls for war crime prosecutions for the Iraq war, Colin Powell is rarely if ever named as one of the accused.

Quoting Wikipedia:

> Powell's chief role was to garner international support for a multi-national coalition to mount the invasion. To this end, Powell addressed a plenary session of the United Nations Security Council on February 5, 2003, to argue in favor of military action. Citing numerous anonymous Iraqi defectors, Powell asserted that "there can be no doubt that Saddam Hussein has biological weapons and the capability to rapidly produce more, many more." Powell also stated that there was "no doubt in my mind" that Saddam was working to obtain key components to produce nuclear weapons.[61]

It's hard to deny he worked hard to justify an illegal war of aggression, which, as we've established is a war crime.

Re: Colin Powell has died

#189

Post by betterunix2 » Mon, Oct 18, 2021, 4:13 PM UTC

sofixa wrote: post #174

betterunix2 wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is an absurdly broad reading of "crimes against peace," so much so that you are just diluting the meaning of "war crimes."

> A crime against peace, in international law, is "planning, preparation, initiation, or waging of wars of aggression, or a war in violation of international treaties, agreements or assurances, or participation in a common plan or conspiracy for the accomplishment of any of the foregoing That's pretty much the definition of crimes against peace.

Where is lying to the UN in that definition?

Re: Colin Powell has died

#190

Post by lamontcg » Mon, Oct 18, 2021, 4:40 PM UTC

_3ddw wrote: post #63

CapricornNoble wrote: post #24

Colin Powell is a textbook case of "A thousand 'Atta-boys!' and one fuck-up!". He joined the Army in the 1950s, served through 2 tours in Vietnam, and made it all the way to Chairman of the Joint Chiefs by the end of the 1980s, leading the military through Operation Desert Storm and the post-Soviet era. That's a rare career for ANY American, let alone a black one. But all that went "poof!" after his shameful performa…

I was 17 when we invaded Afghanistan and 19 when we invaded Iraq. Through the lead-up to both of those conflicts I remember watching scores of demonstrators marching outside the White House, chanting slogans against the wars. What did they know that Colin Powell did not?

I was 30 and 32. I just listened to the weapons inspectors. I wasn't surprised at all when all of Hussein's bluster was about putting on a domestic show of opposition and not appearing weak, apparently I understand dictators better than the CIA.

Also when Rice was testifying that if Hussein had HEU that he was 9 months away from a nuclear device I knew she was lying without lying, because I'm probably 9 months away from a (crude) nuclear device if you give me enough HEU (and let me buy some chemicals to make explosives).

The yellowcake nonsense was also clearly nonsense in real-time, and Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11 because Hussein would have put to death any Salafists he could find.

I also was old enough then to remember this guy explaining why invading Iraq was a bad idea:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pT7Ik_X1HU0

And fast-forward to today and Michael R. Gordon who put forward the argument in the NYT that Iraq was building a nuclear bomb (the "aluminum tubes") is the same journalist who wrote the sick Wuhan lab workers piece in the WSJ (which once again only quoted "intelligence sources say..." and was otherwise fact-free). When someone is getting you very, very angry at a foreign power you should question why (Democrats would do well to look at all the hype around Russia and all the nothing being done about the Trump administration by Biden).