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Colin Powell has died

cnn.com

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Re: Colin Powell has died

#151

Post by bhouston »

timbit42 wrote: post #138
bhouston wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was against the Iraq war as well. It was clearly based on lies. It also lead to the deaths of hundreds of thousands of innocent Iraqis. What surprised me and I noticed then when Donald Rumsfeld died. Both Iraqi and Afghanistan have nearly doubled their populations since 2001: https://www.worldometers.info/world-population/iraq-populati... https://www.worldometers.info/world-population/afghanistan-p... I wonder if t…

Countries with little to no rights for women tend to have more children because the women have little to no access to contraception.

Iraq and Afghanistan are trending higher than Iran, Egypt and Jordan.

Re: Colin Powell has died

#152

Post by [deleted] »

dkarl wrote: post #141
_3ddw wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was 17 when we invaded Afghanistan and 19 when we invaded Iraq. Through the lead-up to both of those conflicts I remember watching scores of demonstrators marching outside the White House, chanting slogans against the wars. What did they know that Colin Powell did not?

You would have been 7 when Desert Storm happened, then. Desert Storm is an episode that will probably be classified as a historical anomaly in hindsight, but in 2001, it was our most recent large-scale military action. Desert Storm was limited, focused, and... wait for the 1990s SNL joke you might be too young to remember... "prudent." Whether it was a good idea or not, whether it accomplished anything positive or no…

[deleted]

Re: Colin Powell has died

#153

Post by sofixa »

jl6 wrote: post #118

To help keep things grounded, here’s the UN’s definition of war crime: https://www.un.org/en/genocideprevention/war-crimes.shtml Before throwing around the accusation of “war criminal”, take a look and try to determine which crime the accused committed. A politician lying on a grave matter may be reprehensible or even unforgivable, but let’s not debase language with undue exaggeration.

Crime agaist peace, even the US Army field manual states it's a war crime, for civilians nd miligary people alike.

Re: Colin Powell has died

#154

Post by lowkey_ »

macinjosh wrote: post #133
lowkey_ wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That belongs in the history books, Wikipedia pages, and retrospectives of one's life. History will not repeat itself because you didn't properly and fully disparage a person beneath the news of their passing in a little-known internet news forum.

I'll read a hagiographical obit on colon powel and his ilk as soon as the NYT and CNN start publishing individual obits and special coverage of every single innocent child they killed in the middle east. otherwise i don't care about murderous trash like him, like at all.

That's exactly the point, putting aside your vitriol!

If you don't care, then just don't open the thread or comment on it. Start another thread sometime based on the events you actually want everyone to discuss. Nobody is gaining anything from reading it, and many of us value life, and respect death, to a different degree.

Re: Colin Powell has died

#155

Post by _3ddw »

dkarl wrote: post #141
_3ddw wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was 17 when we invaded Afghanistan and 19 when we invaded Iraq. Through the lead-up to both of those conflicts I remember watching scores of demonstrators marching outside the White House, chanting slogans against the wars. What did they know that Colin Powell did not?

You would have been 7 when Desert Storm happened, then. Desert Storm is an episode that will probably be classified as a historical anomaly in hindsight, but in 2001, it was our most recent large-scale military action. Desert Storm was limited, focused, and... wait for the 1990s SNL joke you might be too young to remember... "prudent." Whether it was a good idea or not, whether it accomplished anything positive or no…

I wrote a different comment, then re-read your comment above, and deleted my original reply.

All I can say is that I thought about Desert Storm when I wrote my original comment. I may have been 7 or whatever, but I did grow up in the period after Desert Storm and I remember clearly how infallible American military might was thought to be in popular opinion.

> That's probably what Colin Powell was counting on.

God knows. Why would you distance Powell from the other "generals would never tell the truth"? I'm not sure I would.

Re: Colin Powell has died

#156

Post by h2odragon »

merpnderp wrote: post #117
h2odragon wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many disagree. As to "company man" ... Watch "Mars Attacks!" for the best portrayal of Colin Powell to hit the big screen.

Do they disagree with any arguments, or just wishful thinking? My Lai and the UN are just the most glaring examples of him putting his career before everything else. I still don't understand how a person who tried to cover up (in the most laughably inept manner) the massacre of civilians by the US Army didn't spend the rest of his life as a pariah, let alone get positive press in the media for decades. Then add in hi…

I have had discussion with people who I must credit with being sincere, who believed Mr Powell was a true American Hero whose accomplishments and achievements should be lauded and emulated. I didn't agree with or understand their arguments well enough to try repeating them.

I think those arguing that way were praising a faithful servant to any master, with no morals or principle of his own. as if thats a good thing to be. I hope im wrong and just failed to understand them.

Re: Colin Powell has died

#157

Post by 1cvmask »

timbit42 wrote: post #138
bhouston wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was against the Iraq war as well. It was clearly based on lies. It also lead to the deaths of hundreds of thousands of innocent Iraqis. What surprised me and I noticed then when Donald Rumsfeld died. Both Iraqi and Afghanistan have nearly doubled their populations since 2001: https://www.worldometers.info/world-population/iraq-populati... https://www.worldometers.info/world-population/afghanistan-p... I wonder if t…

Countries with little to no rights for women tend to have more children because the women have little to no access to contraception.

Contraception and abortion are legal in India. India even had a female head of state before western countries. That didn’t prevent their population growth.

Re: Colin Powell has died

#158

Post by mkr-hn »

_3ddw wrote: post #144
koheripbal wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The invasion of Afghanistan should not be lumped in with Iraq. The first had broad public support in both parties and in the public. ... over 90%. As well as support from NATO, the EU, and many other nations as it was an operation to get Osama Bin Laden after 9/11. The invasion of Iraq was far more controversial and motivated by oil politics. They are completely different animals.

> The invasion of Afghanistan should not be lumped in with Iraq. > The first had broad public support in both parties and in the public. ... over 90% Certainly. But that is exactly what leaders are for: Good leaders worth mourning transform knowledge and sage wisdom into actions that should sometimes run counter to popular public will, and do not always bow under public pressure. Good leaders guide their people away…

And yet, still a bad leader.

Re: Colin Powell has died

#159

Post by gus_massa »

macinjosh wrote: post #133
lowkey_ wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That belongs in the history books, Wikipedia pages, and retrospectives of one's life. History will not repeat itself because you didn't properly and fully disparage a person beneath the news of their passing in a little-known internet news forum.

I'll read a hagiographical obit on colon powel and his ilk as soon as the NYT and CNN start publishing individual obits and special coverage of every single innocent child they killed in the middle east. otherwise i don't care about murderous trash like him, like at all.

[You have a typo in the name.]

Re: Colin Powell has died

#160

Post by Frondo »

lowkey_ wrote: post #154
macinjosh wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll read a hagiographical obit on colon powel and his ilk as soon as the NYT and CNN start publishing individual obits and special coverage of every single innocent child they killed in the middle east. otherwise i don't care about murderous trash like him, like at all.

That's exactly the point, putting aside your vitriol! If you don't care, then just don't open the thread or comment on it. Start another thread sometime based on the events you actually want everyone to discuss. Nobody is gaining anything from reading it, and many of us value life, and respect death, to a different degree.

It is without vitriol that I can note that Colin Powell had a long and respected career that started with covering up a US military massacre of civilians and ended acting as the mouthpiece for an unjust war in which many more civilians died.

He lent an even-toned dignity to horrible injustices and held an esteemed position in the US power structures that led to many innocent lives being ended prematurely.

I have no first-hand experience but I'm sure he was also a family man, and he always seemed like a warm and personable individual in interviews, and proud of what he helped the US military do to people overseas.

Is this dispassionate and even-handed enough for you?

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