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Airbnb removes 80% of advertisements in Amsterdam after registration obligation

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Re: Airbnb removes 80% of advertisements in Amsterdam after registration obligation

#141

Post by throw_m239339 »

streamofdigits wrote: post #81

Regulatory arbitrage of some sort seems to be involved in many recent digital business models. Whether it concerns or involves (lack of) data privacy regulation, "reinventing" labour contracts or undercutting taxation frameworks, it is a most cruel reminder of how poor the management of the commons. While many of the efficiencies and attractions of re-inventing various businesses for the "digital age" seem genuine, t…

> Regulatory arbitrage of some sort seems to be involved in many recent digital business models. Whether it concerns or involves (lack of) data privacy regulation, "reinventing" labour contracts or undercutting taxation frameworks, it is a most cruel reminder of how poor the management of the commons.

Well here is the thing, in my country the majority of Airbnb rental are(at least were) illegal. Authorities knew this but hypocritically, illegal rentals were good for tourism, so the state cracked down on a few illegal rentals, for the example, while allowing 99% of them. This is regulatory arbitrage.

Uber on the other hand, didn't have the same luck since legal taxi drivers started to beat up Uber drivers so Uber quickly shut down their operation, as they were running illegal taxis and they couldn't have their cake and eat it too with the justice system... Sometimes it does backfire.

One of the reasons why all these SV tech business got away with it is the fact that they are all located in US, only the landlord or the driver are taking real risks legally. As I said before, if I tried such an operation in my own country, I'll be shut down in no time and sent straight to jail for running illegal hotels. "it's just an app" wouldn't work.

I still think that my government could have banned these apps if they really wanted to at first place, they are so eager to shutdown torrent/illegal VOD websites for instance, but they didn't.

Re: Airbnb removes 80% of advertisements in Amsterdam after registration obligation

#142

Post by gkya »

Panzer04 wrote: post #62
jurmous wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Amsterdam is a city being overrun by tourists and that is something local councils should be able to control. Locals have difficulty to find homes as prices are raising to high levels. https://nltimes.nl/2016/10/13/amsterdam-center-overrun-touri... https://www.travelandtourworld.com/news/article/amsterdam-is... https://www.dutchnews.nl/news/2020/01/amsterdam-house-prices...

I don't understand why houses should be excluded from the capitalistic process; If councils were doing their job and permitting sufficient housing construction, then high prices = more housing = everyone is happy. I'm no expert on Amsterdam, but checking your last article mentions rent control; why would property developers bother building new housing when the returns are artificially deflated by government action? T…

> I don't understand why houses should be excluded from the capitalistic process

Because it sucks and nothing should be included in it.

Re: Airbnb removes 80% of advertisements in Amsterdam after registration obligation

#143

Post by Vinnl »

hesselink wrote: post #30

It is worth noting that according to a (Dutch language) article I read this morning, 90% of the listings that were removed had not been booked in the last year according to an Airbnb spokesperson. Paywalled Dutch language link: https://www.volkskrant.nl/nieuws-achtergrond/airbnb-raakt-dr...

Non-paywalled Dutch language link: https://www.ad.nl/amsterdam/verhuurplatforms-door-registrati...

> Het gaat vooral om slapende advertenties van woningen die al een tijd niet verhuurd werden.

> It mainly concerns sleeping listings of units that have not been rented out for a while.

The number of listings is also expected to increase again if the number of tourists bounces back up after Covid.

Of course, the linked article also mentions this, albeit without claims of it being large part of the number:

> This may concern ‘dormant’ advertisements of which the tenant is no longer active. For example, because the corona pandemic has shut down tourism in Amsterdam for a long time.

Re: Airbnb removes 80% of advertisements in Amsterdam after registration obligation

#144

Post by naveen99 »

throw_m239339 wrote: post #141
streamofdigits wrote: post #81

Regulatory arbitrage of some sort seems to be involved in many recent digital business models. Whether it concerns or involves (lack of) data privacy regulation, "reinventing" labour contracts or undercutting taxation frameworks, it is a most cruel reminder of how poor the management of the commons. While many of the efficiencies and attractions of re-inventing various businesses for the "digital age" seem genuine, t…

> Regulatory arbitrage of some sort seems to be involved in many recent digital business models. Whether it concerns or involves (lack of) data privacy regulation, "reinventing" labour contracts or undercutting taxation frameworks, it is a most cruel reminder of how poor the management of the commons. Well here is the thing, in my country the majority of Airbnb rental are(at least were) illegal. Authorities knew this…

The irony of law abiding vigilante drivers beating up regulation abritraging drivers

Re: Airbnb removes 80% of advertisements in Amsterdam after registration obligation

#145

Post by gerikson »

mrep wrote: post #104
gerikson wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, there are private and council-owned landlords.

Can you explain more? That still sounds like you are able to "make money by buying a few flats and renting them out" but with extra steps.

Expanding on 'dawg, it's generally only profitable to rent if you're a company devoted only to renting, and the regulatory regime punishes the landlord with only a few units. This is because rents are not market-based, but instead are based on "use value" (bruksvärde). A 19th C apartment in the middle of the city can theoretically be worth "less" from a rental perspective than a newly built apartment in the suburbs.

Any annual rent increases are set via a form of collective bargaining, and if a landlord charges more, the renter is entitled to their money back.

The upshot of this is that it's much more profitable to buy a rental building and flip it to the renters via a bostadsrättsförening (a bit like a condo) or to only build to sell.

Re: Airbnb removes 80% of advertisements in Amsterdam after registration obligation

#146

Post by dorchadas »

Etheryte wrote: post #136
dorchadas wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hopefully to the long-term market.

As an expat living in the Netherlands I've seen this up close, but in most part it seems this is temporary. Many properties that were previously Airbnb-d were put up for rental, but only for short contracts of a year or two at most. This leads me to believe that many of those listings hope to return to Airbnb once tourism and the like picks up again.

That's what seems to have happened in Dublin too. Last August saw a doubling of long-term rentals, most in the areas most hard hit by AirBnB. I don't think it's lasted, given how bad things currently are here, sadly. Something really needs to be done to move them and keep them on the long-term market where they belong.

Re: Airbnb removes 80% of advertisements in Amsterdam after registration obligation

#147

Post by beckman466 »

streamofdigits wrote: post #81

Regulatory arbitrage of some sort seems to be involved in many recent digital business models. Whether it concerns or involves (lack of) data privacy regulation, "reinventing" labour contracts or undercutting taxation frameworks, it is a most cruel reminder of how poor the management of the commons. While many of the efficiencies and attractions of re-inventing various businesses for the "digital age" seem genuine, t…

> a lose-lose proposition for anybody but the most short-term minded.

"[I]n recent years the realisation has dawned that what’s good for Silicon Valley is not always good for everyone. What started with scrappy upstarts promising to make the world a better place has morphed into something more sinister: a pantheon of faceless multinationals who collectively dominate the world’s digital infrastructure, flouting regulations, avoiding taxes, and taking advantage of precarious labour to make a small number of people tremendously wealthy."

https://tribunemag.co.uk/2019/01/abolish-silicon-valley

Re: Airbnb removes 80% of advertisements in Amsterdam after registration obligation

#148

Post by throaway46546 »

rsj_hn wrote: post #55
bartread wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't especially mind tourists in moderate numbers - after all, from time to time, I play the tourist myself. However, I live and work in Cambridge, and if we were to put what you suggest into practice the city would become an absolutely intolerable place to be for everyone. AirBnb may or may not be a big problem here but, if it is, it's a subset of a bigger problem: buy to let. I'd like to see buy to let severely…

> buy to let. I'd like to see buy to let severely curtailed within the city, as it's certainly driving up already high prices. I'm familiar with the argument that AirBnB reduces rental stock by devoting it to tourism. But I rarely encounter someone who is mad that more rental stock is being added. Wouldn't you want rental prices to fall by increasing the availability of rental stock? Is a big gap between the cost of…

Sounds like a NIMBY

Re: Airbnb removes 80% of advertisements in Amsterdam after registration obligation

#149

Post by ricardobeat »

mercy_dude wrote: post #139
ralfn wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The fight against Airbnb is a symbolic fight for the left winged parties in the city. That is just bullshit. The people complaining about their AirBnB neighbours are mostly in Zuid. Definitely in not Social housing. Please don't start projecting left/right schoolyard tribe politics in an international context. You embarrass our country. Usage of the phrase "left" and "right" is already dumb when Americans do it. But…

I agree using right vs left is dumb on occasions but OP has a point. Liberals (at least in US/Canada) used to be the one who would care about working middle class and their living conditions. In US and Canada all major North American cities(almost all of which I had left leaning politicians) the prices have exploded. You hear for example Canadian prime minister making it election pledge to make housing affordable, wh…

It’s quite hard to follow your line of reasoning here. Unless you can explain how “leftist” policies have led to housing inflation, the fact prices have gone up doesn’t seem to contradict your PM pledging to reduce them.

Re: Airbnb removes 80% of advertisements in Amsterdam after registration obligation

#150

Post by simias »

dorchadas wrote: post #86
scrose wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Years ago when Airbnb was picking up steam and I was in college I got a gig building a tool to automate cross-referencing Airbnb listings with housing records so the city could request the optional tourism tax. What we found surprised all of them. A handful of people were listing sometimes over a dozen properties and avoiding the larger, but not optional, hotel tax. The 80% figure doesn’t surprise me much now just kn…

> how a few individuals can flood the short-term rental market in an area. And, if it's like some cities (Dublin, Galway), they do this at the expense of the long-term rental market.

And the housing market at large, since they also buy flats to turn them into short term rentals.
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