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HTTP is obsolete – it's time for the distributed, permanent web (2015)

ipfs.io

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Re: HTTP is obsolete – it's time for the distributed, permanent web (2015)

#41

Post by doliveira »

On a side note, do you all know about some research or PoC in the direction of a globally distributed knowledge graph or something of sorts? Or at least a more technical name I could google.

I think it's so bad that so much of the Internet information is siloed in walled gardens and that pages have to be dynamically generated and routed across the globe every single time... Imagine how it's gonna be when we get to Mars, for instance. Storing this knowledge graph in IPFS files seems like a logical step to me (as an absolute layman, though)

Re: HTTP is obsolete – it's time for the distributed, permanent web (2015)

#42

Post by jFriedensreich »

CharlesW wrote: post #23

The author claims that IPFS enables a "permanent web" and eliminates 404-like experiences. How does IPFS guarantee that all published content will be available forever? (In my beginner-level knowledge of IPFS, this is the first I've heard that claim. It seems absurd.)

its more that ipfs enables a permanent web, not that this technology immediately has this property as a feature. it requires players like internet archive, libraries, website hosters and individuals to pin content and develop interesting pinning strategies. for example browsers could pin everything that is bookmarked and everything that is in browser cache.

Re: HTTP is obsolete – it's time for the distributed, permanent web (2015)

#43

Post by alisonkisk »

CharlesW wrote: post #18
spicybright wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wonder if it's practical to "buffer" popular content on IPFS by copying it to normal HTTP servers. Requesting an IPFS document would query a few popular repositories, then revert back to normal IPFS if it's not found. These buffer servers would also track what's popular and shuffle around what they store accordingly.

The irony is that this and other IPFS problems will (must?) be fixed by recentralization. Cloudflare is doing this with IPFS Gateway, and Google will surely embrace/extend/usurp IPFS if it becomes popular. The user experience of bare IPFS is just not good enough.

Doesn't matter. the point of ipfs is that when cloudflare and google shut down their gateway, the ipfs content is still available at the same address.

Re: HTTP is obsolete – it's time for the distributed, permanent web (2015)

#44

Post by vmception »

CharlesW wrote: post #18
spicybright wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wonder if it's practical to "buffer" popular content on IPFS by copying it to normal HTTP servers. Requesting an IPFS document would query a few popular repositories, then revert back to normal IPFS if it's not found. These buffer servers would also track what's popular and shuffle around what they store accordingly.

The irony is that this and other IPFS problems will (must?) be fixed by recentralization. Cloudflare is doing this with IPFS Gateway, and Google will surely embrace/extend/usurp IPFS if it becomes popular. The user experience of bare IPFS is just not good enough.

I agree with a [previously] dead/deleted commented at this level:

"Doesn't matter. the point of ipfs is that when cloudflare and google shut down their gateway, the ipfs content is still available at the same address."

Re: HTTP is obsolete – it's time for the distributed, permanent web (2015)

#45

Post by delaaxe »

CharlesW wrote: post #23

The author claims that IPFS enables a "permanent web" and eliminates 404-like experiences. How does IPFS guarantee that all published content will be available forever? (In my beginner-level knowledge of IPFS, this is the first I've heard that claim. It seems absurd.)

I don't know about IPFS but Arweave solved the "permanent" part by asking nodes to periodically prove that they're actually storing what they're supposed to be storing: https://www.arweave.org/

Re: HTTP is obsolete – it's time for the distributed, permanent web (2015)

#46

Post by xwdv »

Zababa wrote: post #34

So IPFS is basically some kind of automatic behind-the-scene torrenting? I see how that solves the "dead server" problem, but how does that solves the "content longevity" problem?

Incentives must be created for storing content. Imagine if each request was really more like a bounty where the requester would pay the host when the file is delivered.

Re: HTTP is obsolete – it's time for the distributed, permanent web (2015)

#48

Post by noen »

sergiotapia wrote: post #14

Is there a way to install something on my local machine and host IPFS content to help "the swarm". If they combine this with some kind of crypto monetary incentive it would go a long way for people to help "the swarm". Odysee is looking into adding crypto to your balance when you serve content that helps viewers.

No. I tried. For weeks. Filecoin is the mechanism for this. And they do everything humanly possible to both technically keep the ecosystem open, while at the same time making it practically impossible for any non-data center vendor to take part.

The min hardware specs are absurdly large. Most of the services required are not prepackaged alum any way, the exercise is left to the implementer for almost everything.

If you don’t have 100k+ to drop in hardware, there’s no community help for you.

It’s a shame because ipfs is well structured from the other end, but it’s not really decentralized in any way other than naming.

Re: HTTP is obsolete – it's time for the distributed, permanent web (2015)

#49

Post by 6510 »

jFriedensreich wrote: post #42
CharlesW wrote: post #23

The author claims that IPFS enables a "permanent web" and eliminates 404-like experiences. How does IPFS guarantee that all published content will be available forever? (In my beginner-level knowledge of IPFS, this is the first I've heard that claim. It seems absurd.)

its more that ipfs enables a permanent web, not that this technology immediately has this property as a feature. it requires players like internet archive, libraries, website hosters and individuals to pin content and develop interesting pinning strategies. for example browsers could pin everything that is bookmarked and everything that is in browser cache.

You can link to documents and keep them online as oppose to publications with unobtainable references.

Re: HTTP is obsolete – it's time for the distributed, permanent web (2015)

#50

Post by noman-land »

jeroenhd wrote: post #3

I like IPFS, I really do, but whenever I try to use it, it's either too slow to become usable or sometimes it plain doesn't work. I pinned a whole bunch of files on IPFS a while back to experiment with it and the system seems to work, but every time I try to fetch those resources from a location that hasn't cached the content yet, it takes several seconds to show me the HTML/JSON/PNG files. HTTP may be inefficient fo…

I love IPFS. It's one of my favorite recent technologies, but I think people have unrealistic expectations about such a young idea.

Decentralized tech doesn't work well until the network effects build up.

IPFS has the interesting quality that the more popular a piece of content is, the easier it is to get ahold of. If millions of people were using IPFS, the most popular content would be being served by many thousands of people, and finding it and downloading it would be extremely fast. Then subsequent viewings would be instantaneous because you can cache it for life.

This leaves interesting incentives for monetizing pinning and caching for less popular content.

It makes sense if you ask me. If I love a piece of music so much that I'm willing to give it to others for free then everyone benefits from being able to access it easier.

Content that people care about organically becomes more resilient and nearly impossible to remove.

Content that no one cares about is slow and inefficient because it has to be hauled out of cold storage the one time a year anyone cares.

If someone thinks that content is more important than people are giving it credit for they can host it or pay for someone else to do it.

If you have a website and you have "fans" that subscribe to you and help pin all your stuff, then your stuff becomes faster and easier to get. Your "fans" can even get paid for helping to serve your content.

So, to me, it's early days for IPFS, and the way to make it better is to try to build apps that increase its usage, so the power of the network effects is felt.

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