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An underwater mystery on Canada's coast

bbc.com

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Re: An underwater mystery on Canada's coast

#21

Post by [deleted] »

sandworm101 wrote: post #20
vmception wrote: post #3

Reading this and the talk about how “surprising” it is reminds me of how I’ve been researching British Columbia’s relationship with First Nations people, and this research extended to other people in the Pacific Northwest under the US system. My takeaway is that everything about this is heavily misunderstood. As CPG Grey also concluded, the entire concept is overinclusive, to its detriment. As we squabble between ter…

>> that the map of North America should be dotted with microstates So who gets which microstate? Which point in history should be selected as the point whereby the name of the resident people is attached to a particular patch of land? These peoples moved around, they migrated and conquered one another for millennia. Does the arrival of Europeans suddenly lock them into whatever territory they had at the moment of fir…

[deleted]

Re: An underwater mystery on Canada's coast

#23

Post by sandworm101 »

angelzen wrote: post #10
vmception wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, I’ll bite: how would you describe Papau-New Guinea’s system in a way that could quickly convey an enhancement to what the reservation and other treaties around North America, since “Microstate like Europe” doesn’t convey that - to some

To the best of my understanding, B.C. circa 1800 can be described as 'patchwork of sovereign micro-ethnic groups in rugged terrain' Europe microstates: Andorra, Monaco, San Marino, Vatican, Liechtenstein, Faeroe, maybe Iceland and Luxembourg. Relics of times long past, historical curiosities. Papua NewGuinea: 832 living languages, presumably each with an independent history tracing hundreds if not thousands of years.…

>> B.C. circa 1800 can be described as 'patchwork of sovereign micro-ethnic groups in rugged terrain

So was Appalachia at that time. So too were the expanses of Russia. So too was even Ireland. Pretty much every 17/1800s settled territory without a nearby railroad was composed of tightly-knit micro-ethic groupings. That doesn't meant they were not also part of a larger nation.

Re: An underwater mystery on Canada's coast

#24

Post by cfn »

sandworm101 wrote: post #12

Local reporting with much better pictures, diagrams and even a locally-produced podcast. https://www.hakaimagazine.com/features/the-ingenious-ancient...

This should be the link at the top. The BBC article doesn't even have a picture of the remnants of the stakes!

Re: An underwater mystery on Canada's coast

#25

Post by dsomers »

jimnotgym wrote: post #14
dsomers wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is kind of debatable through, sure there are national laws, and even EU wide laws. However, Germany has its states, Berlin has different laws than Hamburg for certain things, same as Italy and Spain have their regions with various levels of autonomy. Every municipality all over Europe has control of some of its local laws, too. We don’t just have one European wide law, or even German wide law for every aspect of…

Just like every county in the US can have different laws. An example might be sales tax rates in Florida. Maybe the top poster should say that the map of North America should be dotted with micro-states like the USA (maybe even like Canada, I don't know) That way it wouldn't sound like an American trying to paint Europe as some kind of parochial backwater of medieval fiefdoms.

Yeah, he definitely did not word it well. I’m from Canada, and how you describe it as North America having micro states is also kind of true. There are states, territories and provinces, across North America with a lot of local control, but there are also local native reservations that have a lot of sovereignty. For example, there are plenty of tribal lands close to where I grow up that have completely separate laws from the provenance that they are in, they deal directly with the federal government and even do their own policing. Although you almost never see those boarders on maps, there’s a strong argument that they’re a type of micro state, and Canada probably has multiple dozens of them if not hundreds with different languages and laws.

Re: An underwater mystery on Canada's coast

#27

Post by geenew »

sandworm101 wrote: post #23
angelzen wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To the best of my understanding, B.C. circa 1800 can be described as 'patchwork of sovereign micro-ethnic groups in rugged terrain' Europe microstates: Andorra, Monaco, San Marino, Vatican, Liechtenstein, Faeroe, maybe Iceland and Luxembourg. Relics of times long past, historical curiosities. Papua NewGuinea: 832 living languages, presumably each with an independent history tracing hundreds if not thousands of years.…

>> B.C. circa 1800 can be described as 'patchwork of sovereign micro-ethnic groups in rugged terrain So was Appalachia at that time. So too were the expanses of Russia. So too was even Ireland. Pretty much every 17/1800s settled territory without a nearby railroad was composed of tightly-knit micro-ethic groupings. That doesn't meant they were not also part of a larger nation.

Roads and canals do fine for knitting together a nation in the cultural and political sense of the word, and for enforcing/dispensing all the fruits of central government. Europe in the early 1800s was less homogeneous than today, perhaps, but it's strange to claim that areas without nearby rail service were a 'patchwork of sovereign micro-ethnic groups'.

Re: An underwater mystery on Canada's coast

#28

Post by rendall »

vmception wrote: post #3

Reading this and the talk about how “surprising” it is reminds me of how I’ve been researching British Columbia’s relationship with First Nations people, and this research extended to other people in the Pacific Northwest under the US system. My takeaway is that everything about this is heavily misunderstood. As CPG Grey also concluded, the entire concept is overinclusive, to its detriment. As we squabble between ter…

> As we squabble between terms like indigenous, First Nations, native American, Indian, we are missing that these are all distinct cultures and there is no overarching grouping really possible.

I agree; and moreover about the terms "white" and "black". Using these terms as if they actually refer to something in common beyond melanin level elides the true and magnificent variety of human cultural expression and historical diversity.

White for example refers to peoples as different as Appalachian descendants of Scottish Reavers as well as Berber royalty, among thousands of other cultures and heritages. Black, likewise, refers to peoples as different as African-Americans as well as to elite descendents of millenia-old Malian and west-African dynasties; among thousands of other heritages and cultures.

Re: An underwater mystery on Canada's coast

#29

Post by cassepipe »

zoomablemind wrote: post #2

Not sure which is the primary source (BBC is very much likely), but [1] gives more details on the look of the stake sites, the discovered locations, and most intriguingly (for myself) the supposed design of the fish traps. [1]: https://www.ancient-origins.net/news-history-archaeology/fir...

Yes, but [1] also seems to be the kind of websites that promotes mystical/conspirational stuff about how the aliens/atlants actually built the pyramids with state-of-the-art alien tech and how they already had batteries, aircrafts... Although they will never say it out loud, you have to watch the documentaries until the end. The conspirational part is how the egyptologist/archeologist lobby try prevent us from the knowing the truth. The video editing and false truthes in them also look like any other conspiracy-theory video. It's innocuous but had to be noted.

Re: An underwater mystery on Canada's coast

#30

Post by mattowen_uk »

cfn wrote: post #24
sandworm101 wrote: post #12

Local reporting with much better pictures, diagrams and even a locally-produced podcast. https://www.hakaimagazine.com/features/the-ingenious-ancient...

This should be the link at the top. The BBC article doesn't even have a picture of the remnants of the stakes!

BBC News articles are mostly now written by AI pulling from other newsfeeds. It's only really good enough for the 80% who don't actually care about news, information, or actually learning anything.
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