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An underwater mystery on Canada's coast

bbc.com

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Re: An underwater mystery on Canada's coast

#11

Post by angelzen »

dsomers wrote: post #9
angelzen wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Europe is far from being dotted with microstates. There are a handful of relics, but most of Europe has been unified under some larger nation state. For a historical perspective, a political map of pre-1800 Germany with 'up to 350 states': https://twitter.com/weird_hist/status/1260451732221542400

This is kind of debatable through, sure there are national laws, and even EU wide laws. However, Germany has its states, Berlin has different laws than Hamburg for certain things, same as Italy and Spain have their regions with various levels of autonomy. Every municipality all over Europe has control of some of its local laws, too. We don’t just have one European wide law, or even German wide law for every aspect of…

Sure, but not every small town has a distinct language and distinct set of laws. The OP talks about "food security for an estimated 10,000-12,000 K'ómoks People", unclear that the K'ómoks ethnic group was much larger than 10k.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/K%27%C3%B3moks

Re: An underwater mystery on Canada's coast

#14

Post by jimnotgym »

dsomers wrote: post #9
angelzen wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Europe is far from being dotted with microstates. There are a handful of relics, but most of Europe has been unified under some larger nation state. For a historical perspective, a political map of pre-1800 Germany with 'up to 350 states': https://twitter.com/weird_hist/status/1260451732221542400

This is kind of debatable through, sure there are national laws, and even EU wide laws. However, Germany has its states, Berlin has different laws than Hamburg for certain things, same as Italy and Spain have their regions with various levels of autonomy. Every municipality all over Europe has control of some of its local laws, too. We don’t just have one European wide law, or even German wide law for every aspect of…

Just like every county in the US can have different laws. An example might be sales tax rates in Florida.

Maybe the top poster should say that the map of North America should be dotted with micro-states like the USA (maybe even like Canada, I don't know)

That way it wouldn't sound like an American trying to paint Europe as some kind of parochial backwater of medieval fiefdoms.

Re: An underwater mystery on Canada's coast

#16

Post by vmception »

angelzen wrote: post #10
vmception wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, I’ll bite: how would you describe Papau-New Guinea’s system in a way that could quickly convey an enhancement to what the reservation and other treaties around North America, since “Microstate like Europe” doesn’t convey that - to some

To the best of my understanding, B.C. circa 1800 can be described as 'patchwork of sovereign micro-ethnic groups in rugged terrain' Europe microstates: Andorra, Monaco, San Marino, Vatican, Liechtenstein, Faeroe, maybe Iceland and Luxembourg. Relics of times long past, historical curiosities. Papua NewGuinea: 832 living languages, presumably each with an independent history tracing hundreds if not thousands of years.…

And how would that mix with losing to a more powerful group which has diplomatic consensus with the rest of the world while maintaining sovereignty and trade with the more powerful winner?

I am not seeing how recognizing Papua-New Guinea’s language history addresses that? I’m not familiar with how its governed or if it has to balance cultures, resources and property with an imperial force that merely tolerates everyone else.

Re: An underwater mystery on Canada's coast

#18

Post by 8bitsrule »

sandworm101 wrote: post #12

Local reporting with much better pictures, diagrams and even a locally-produced podcast. https://www.hakaimagazine.com/features/the-ingenious-ancient...

Thanks. Wow, what a beautifully done online-magazine. (A ~ 20 person operation)

RSS Feeds: [https://www.hakaimagazine.com/rss-feeds/]

Lots of YT videos too. [https://www.youtube.com/c/HakaiMagazine/videos]

Re: An underwater mystery on Canada's coast

#19

Post by angelzen »

vmception wrote: post #16
angelzen wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To the best of my understanding, B.C. circa 1800 can be described as 'patchwork of sovereign micro-ethnic groups in rugged terrain' Europe microstates: Andorra, Monaco, San Marino, Vatican, Liechtenstein, Faeroe, maybe Iceland and Luxembourg. Relics of times long past, historical curiosities. Papua NewGuinea: 832 living languages, presumably each with an independent history tracing hundreds if not thousands of years.…

And how would that mix with losing to a more powerful group which has diplomatic consensus with the rest of the world while maintaining sovereignty and trade with the more powerful winner? I am not seeing how recognizing Papua-New Guinea’s language history addresses that? I’m not familiar with how its governed or if it has to balance cultures, resources and property with an imperial force that merely tolerates everyo…

Can't help with that. I'm interested in ethno-geography. Here's a nice map of early XIX century Coast Salish micro ethnic groups: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coast_Salish#/media/File:Coast...

Re: An underwater mystery on Canada's coast

#20

Post by sandworm101 »

vmception wrote: post #3

Reading this and the talk about how “surprising” it is reminds me of how I’ve been researching British Columbia’s relationship with First Nations people, and this research extended to other people in the Pacific Northwest under the US system. My takeaway is that everything about this is heavily misunderstood. As CPG Grey also concluded, the entire concept is overinclusive, to its detriment. As we squabble between ter…

>> that the map of North America should be dotted with microstates

So who gets which microstate? Which point in history should be selected as the point whereby the name of the resident people is attached to a particular patch of land? These peoples moved around, they migrated and conquered one another for millennia. Does the arrival of Europeans suddenly lock them into whatever territory they had at the moment of first contact? Making the groups smaller risks dividing communities and cutting off people from the most lucrative claims processes. I'm sure the people of northern BC don't want to be cut off from the claims in the south, the claims involving the most valuable lands.

BC, and Canada more widely, is struggling to determine who should even be at the table to negotiate. Traditional territories overlap. Blood claims are often based on shaky evidence. Something as slim as a single forged letter can expand or contract a community by thousands. If treaties or settlements are going to be signed, by who? Are the people in charge of various groups today in any better position to sign permanent deals than their ancestors were a few hundred years ago? We are generations away from any real conclusion to these issues.

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