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Dislike button would improve Spotify's recommendations

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Re: Dislike button would improve Spotify's recommendations

#261

Post by charcircuit »

addandsubtract wrote: post #206
geoduck14 wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was at a conference the other week and Spotify had a Keynote. They talked about the tradeoff between playing "diverse songs" and "consistent songs". It is a hard problem to solve. When you start your listening session they try and predict how long you are going going listen (based on your past history and time of day). If you are probably going to listen for a while, they are more risky and might play something "di…

They could just ask. I promise my answers will be more accurate than any AI guessing for me.

People rarely know what they actually want

Re: Dislike button would improve Spotify's recommendations

#262

Post by qq4 »

jorgesborges wrote: post #22

So basically they’re developing a product marketed to streaming platforms to identify what’s “more attractive” to consumers. The algorithms are still optimized for increasing sales and engagement, not improving recommendations (for the user). That’s exactly why I’m unhappy with Spotify lately. I feel I’m being sold a bunch of corporate portfolios on what’s currently in vogue, and not just artistically but politically…

I went back to my iPod. Spotify, Apple Music, YouTube, they all suck compared to good ol' mp3s at my leisure.

Re: Dislike button would improve Spotify's recommendations

#263

Post by LegitShady »

1_player wrote: post #152
LegitShady wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think Youtube Music does a decent job on recommendations but its android app is annoying. How does it still not have a horizontal screen mode?

The iOS and web app are _bad_. And knowing Google, it won't get any better anytime soon.

their development team is a goldfish swimming in a bowl beside a keyboard, I think

Re: Dislike button would improve Spotify's recommendations

#264

Post by alisonkisk »

nkozyra wrote: post #230
rumblerock wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On top of that, if you listen to a wide range of genres the attempt to shoehorn your history into 6 Daily Mixes yields some comical results. Like Doobie Brothers followed by Nirvana. Give me a home screen with 12 or more Daily Mixes that segment my listening behavior at a finer resolution, and I'd be a lot happier with the service. I understand why all the other playlists exist, but I generally have an idea of exactl…

> Like Doobie Brothers followed by Nirvana. What's inherently comical about this? One of my least favorite experiences is having a radio station based on a song and getting nothing but songs that sound just like it. Unless you have only played 90s grunge or 70s soft rock I'm not sure why this juxtaposition is not considered a feature.

If you are listening to these songs back to back, you aren't getting the value either one offers.

It's like watching a movie that's half Fred Astaire and half Freddy Kreuger.

Re: Dislike button would improve Spotify's recommendations

#265

Post by charcircuit »

jdsully wrote: post #153
dfdz wrote: post #115

I have seen this article before. The author are so close to understanding why Spotify does NOT need a dislike button >To dislike a song is easy – to like one, you have to actually invest time in it. Likewise, to detect if a user dislikes a song is easy since the user will not invest time listening to it: the skip button is the dislike button. In contrast, detecting if a user likes a song is more difficult: there need…

Sometimes your just not in the mood for a specific song or genre. A skip doesn’t imply I’d never want to hear a song again.

A song you always want to listen to is better than one you only want to listen to sometimes.

Re: Dislike button would improve Spotify's recommendations

#266

Post by bluefirebrand »

Oddskar wrote: post #132
notyourwork wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My dismissal is based on a many-million digit customer base and online real world data. Sorry if a few hackernews users feel they want a dislike button, most users don't and if you give to them most users don't use it. I don't mind disagreement but dismissing real world data from this industry is sort of silly to counter with 'because I want it you're wrong'.

I disagree that your reasoning is entirely sound. It's a bit of an elitist point of view I suppose; but fundamentally I don't think all customers are created equally in terms of importance. One could even in this day and age call some of the more important ones "influencer" or something similar. While the general customer base might not be served by this feature, what if a subset of the customer base enjoys this feat…

For a long time we called this sort of user a "power user". People who are not necessarily technical but who love your application and use it extensively will appreciate power user functionality.

It's probably fine to not have anything to appeal to power users, but those power users probably will be the sorts to be influencers to talk up your application to everyone they know.

Re: Dislike button would improve Spotify's recommendations

#267

Post by dfdz »

didibus wrote: post #199
dfdz wrote: post #115

I have seen this article before. The author are so close to understanding why Spotify does NOT need a dislike button >To dislike a song is easy – to like one, you have to actually invest time in it. Likewise, to detect if a user dislikes a song is easy since the user will not invest time listening to it: the skip button is the dislike button. In contrast, detecting if a user likes a song is more difficult: there need…

No, I often have fear of skipping because I think it might teach the algos I don't like it, when it's just not what I want to listen to now. Ideally, they should let me like, dislike, skip, hate, completely block artists, and allow me to like multiple times, to teach them the ones I like over and over from the ones I like a little.

> I often have fear of skipping because I think it might teach the algos I don't like it

So basically Spotify is performing reinforcement learning on you— beautiful!

Re: Dislike button would improve Spotify's recommendations

#269

Post by bryan0 »

vanilla_nut wrote: post #194
AcerbicZero wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Weird, I switched to Spotify once Google Play Music (or whatever silly name it had when Google ate songza) became YouTube Music because I found it such a poor experience. Perhaps I was missing something but the change def did not improve the recommendations - it made them drastically worse.

In my experience, Spotify's recommendations are good for a few months, and then stick in a rut at some point for reasons I don't understand. So you're probably in that nice honeymoon phase where it's actually allowing you to discover new things instead of surfacing the same 20 artists over and over and over again.

For me Spotify was discovering good new music for years before getting “stuck” recommending the same artists over and over again last year. I do mark them as “I dont like this song” but it still will recommend them later. I think it’s time to reset and start over.

Re: Dislike button would improve Spotify's recommendations

#270

Post by charcircuit »

max68 wrote: post #229
cletus wrote: post #224

I wonder if you really need a like or dislike button. I'm increasingly convinced they're both being used wrong. If you're listening to a random stream of songs there are only really two actions by the user that matter: 1. They keep listening. This is about the best "like" signal (IMHO); and 2. They skip to the next song. This is effectively a "dislike". Both can be situational not absolute too. But what does like/dis…

That’s not true. I like the beginning of some songs, especially when listening to 20 min+ classical pieces, but not the end. A skip in that case doesn’t mean I don’t like it, but that I don’t want to finish it.

Giving a song 6 minutes of watch time is still good compared to other songs.
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