The time invested in my Pandora stations keep me on that platform. I actually really hate that they recently removed the downvote buttons in the Android auto interface.
Dislike button would improve Spotify's recommendations
61–70 of 660 posts
Re: Dislike button would improve Spotify's recommendations
#62So basically they’re developing a product marketed to streaming platforms to identify what’s “more attractive” to consumers. The algorithms are still optimized for increasing sales and engagement, not improving recommendations (for the user). That’s exactly why I’m unhappy with Spotify lately. I feel I’m being sold a bunch of corporate portfolios on what’s currently in vogue, and not just artistically but politically…
So basically they’re developing a product marketed to streaming platforms to identify what’s “more attractive” to consumers. The algorithms are still optimized for increasing sales and engagement, not improving recommendations (for the user). It's possible that the recommendations are both good for users and good for corporate interests. They might not work for you, but for millions of Spotify users they seem to work…
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Re: Dislike button would improve Spotify's recommendations
#63Earlier quoted context omitted.
The paper is making an obvious claim. If I have data showing positive and negative affinity, that will perform better than a model which just has positive day. I don't find this very surprising but my point is in practice exposing dislike buttons to customers are a CX that is hardly ever used. So the point that a model will perform better with data that customer's rarely offer up to your platform makes their claim mo…
I downvoted your comment to demonstrate that I disagree with you. I've heard some good arguments against allowing users to show dislikes/downvotes as well as likes, but I've not heard your argument before and it doesn't strike me as accurate. Less used than the positive direction, sure, but still significantly used when available.
Netflix, Youtube and reddit aren't the same medium as short lived music streaming is. Streaming music is a show lived precision game of guessing what's relevant. There is a lot of it depends scenarios, are we showing recommendations on a landing page, are we sequencing songs in a station or are we ordering results on a search page. The CX context is a big part of how you can use signals to benefit the customer.
My argument isn't an argument so much as a from real world data in this industry at a major industry competitor that customer's don't use the dislike button enough to justify it taking over your CX. Using co-occurrences of playback across a customer segment and combining that with likes or other signals is good enough.
Re: Dislike button would improve Spotify's recommendations
#64Earlier quoted context omitted.
The paper is making an obvious claim. If I have data showing positive and negative affinity, that will perform better than a model which just has positive day. I don't find this very surprising but my point is in practice exposing dislike buttons to customers are a CX that is hardly ever used. So the point that a model will perform better with data that customer's rarely offer up to your platform makes their claim mo…
I downvoted your comment to demonstrate that I disagree with you. I've heard some good arguments against allowing users to show dislikes/downvotes as well as likes, but I've not heard your argument before and it doesn't strike me as accurate. Less used than the positive direction, sure, but still significantly used when available.
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Re: Dislike button would improve Spotify's recommendations
#65Sure, it would be useful… if users used it. My guess is they don’t. Did you use the like/dislike buttons they tested on Spotify radio? I didn’t, too much effort. They probably get more signal from the skip button
I've used it extensively on Pandora for probably a decade now and it makes a station go from great to spectacular
It blows my mind that some of my Pandora stations are more than a decade old and still listened to regularly.
Re: Dislike button would improve Spotify's recommendations
#66I work in this industry and actually we’ve found from online experimentation customers generally don’t want to tell you they dislike something. The expectation is customers get what they like (relevant) and sometimes they want to express stronger affinity for specific things. The converse hasn’t shown to be true. Generally customers don’t have a clear picture of how their explicit signals impact recommendations. Thou…
The dislike button is if nothing else a sanity check for someone to have control if your model goes haywire. Realistically it will go haywire in a non-trivial number of cases. If every month your model goes haywire for 1% of users then you may see dislike used 1% of the time. That's tiny, right? However without it those users may leave and then next month another 1% will be hit and so on. Users remember the bad things a lot more than the good things so they will remember your AI f-ups and the lack of a way to fix it.
The problem with data driven UX is that the data is often short term (ab tests are expensive) and doesn't cover long term complex user impact.
Edit: For example, I’ve seen a lot of Etsy users complain about their front page being filled with NSFW recommendations and no way to get rid of them. I doubt they’ll be using Etsy much in the future.
Re: Dislike button would improve Spotify's recommendations
#67Earlier quoted context omitted.
Crap like this is why, to this day, my collection is digital files, cds, vinyl and streaming only for radio - like pandora
I want a service where I can upload my own files and easily access them from a player interface in the browser, mobile, etc. I want the ability to rate music across multiple user-configurable dimensions. Add tags. Create smart playlists that interpolate between these. I want to be able to pay a fee to subscribe to music discovery, then be able to mix these with my own library. If I really like a track, I'd like to bu…
Google Drive with a custom media player UI?
I looked for that when Play Music got shuttered but could not find a satisfactory solution. I even paid for one iOS app but it wanted access to my entire drive, and maybe some other unnecessary permissions.. so hell no. I should be able pick one folder and that's it.
I guess I could have made a separate Google account just for music.
Re: Dislike button would improve Spotify's recommendations
#68i am actually impressed to see this come out cornell. i tend to see like and dislike buttons as too simplistic. they greatly reduce why a user would dislike something. i am annoyed at youtube only allowing me to choose from "i didn't like it" or "i have already watched it" for example. i have thousands of other reasons. that's why i don't use dislike buttons.
> i tend to see like and dislike buttons as too simplistic.
Same here. I’m still a big fan of star ratings in iTunes, though I’m not sure if they do anything or influence playback. I have a pretty eclectic taste in music and only want to hear certain songs once in a while and I give those songs get three stars. (Sorry Donnie Iris if you are reading this.)
Re: Dislike button would improve Spotify's recommendations
#69Earlier quoted context omitted.
Crap like this is why, to this day, my collection is digital files, cds, vinyl and streaming only for radio - like pandora
I want a service where I can upload my own files and easily access them from a player interface in the browser, mobile, etc. I want the ability to rate music across multiple user-configurable dimensions. Add tags. Create smart playlists that interpolate between these. I want to be able to pay a fee to subscribe to music discovery, then be able to mix these with my own library. If I really like a track, I'd like to bu…
Apple Music does this for half that price.
- Rating and tagging
- Upload and download your own stuff if you want to (marketed as iCloud Music Library)
- Works offline
- Discovery services available
- API exists but mostly used to implement web players for some reason, works fine in desktop apps too, on top of that the current state of your music library is always available as an XML file even when you don't use the API at all.
Re: Dislike button would improve Spotify's recommendations
#70I work in this industry and actually we’ve found from online experimentation customers generally don’t want to tell you they dislike something. The expectation is customers get what they like (relevant) and sometimes they want to express stronger affinity for specific things. The converse hasn’t shown to be true. Generally customers don’t have a clear picture of how their explicit signals impact recommendations. Thou…
You are exhibiting google's mistake, caused by over educated people with zero real experience thinking they know better. Or, I should correct that - some code they wrote knows better than the complex brain of the actual person. This results in "AI" (big if/then loop) trying to figure it out, and completely blocking any input from the customer. Here's the issue with "inferred from other activity." You know how you can…
I don't disagree with you but that last bit was quite unnecessary.