Most Canadians believe Facebook harms their mental health • Hacker News Board

Re: Most Canadians believe Facebook harms their mental health

#251

Post by jaybz000 » Sat, Oct 16, 2021, 5:10 AM UTC

itsoktocry wrote: post #201

karmanyaahm wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not totally sure, but aren't people with extreme feelings more likely to answer a survey? Voluntary or nonresponse biases

> Not totally sure, but... This kind of discourse is annoying. You don't get "points" for making some hypothetical claim. If you think there is something wrong with an analysis, demonstrate it. Isn't that what "pro-science" people do?

And therein lies the problem with online polling. The randomness, or lack thereof, is not demonstrable without polling people who did not respond to the poll, via a different medium. Hence the standard disclaimer.

Re: Most Canadians believe Facebook harms their mental health

#252

Post by marticode » Sat, Oct 16, 2021, 5:18 AM UTC

kazinator wrote: post #236

RealityVoid wrote: post #50

I used to think, untill recently, that Facebook was just a tool and all this hatred was overblown. After all, I modulated my use of it just fine. My usage is sparse, and I use messenger to talk with people I know, it kept us together. I can see how community and bringing old friends together is precious. But, recently, I realized someone I used to be very close has mental problems. Undiagnosed, but there is no other…

Replace "Facebook" with "language" here ... > And I see how [language] is exacerbating this. I see how these things are poisoning his mind, fantasies weaved by other mentally ill people. It's just sad, when I thought about it and dawned on me most of those _wild_ conspiracy theories are people that need help feeding each other's sickness. > I think it is harmful and [language] does induce bad states in people that wo…

Wow this is such a bad faith attempt at exonerating Facebook that I don't know where to even start.

No the issue isn't language, the issue is Facebook way of pushing outrage-inducing content and isolating people in bubbles of ever more radicalized content. Spend some time on https://www.reddit.com/r/QAnonCasualties/ and come back tell us how the problem is "language" and not social medias.

Re: Most Canadians believe Facebook harms their mental health

#253

Post by cybernautique » Sat, Oct 16, 2021, 5:20 AM UTC

jszymborski wrote: post #18

zepto wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What new platform? Why won’t the new platform be just as bad? Switching brand of cigarettes doesn’t protect your lungs.

I think that's a fair point, but I wonder if I can probe HNs brain on what a "healthy" online social network would look like. Here are some thoughts I have: 1) The platform does not have a user-engagement incentive. 2) Personal network sizes are restricted. You can't be "friends" with everyone. Adding friends perhaps comes at some cost or is just strictly capped. 3) Sharing outside your friends network from the platf…

Local implementations. It's so bizarre to me that locality is never mentioned in these discussions. Our overly-globalized infrastructure is a weird, bad, and ad-hoc system to meet essentially local needs. I say to people, "I wish I knew when a new restaurant opened in the area," and the nigh-universal reply is: check Facebook. Sorry, come again? I should look to a global data provider to find information about local resources? It's foolish for our data structures and it's foolish for our lives.

My dream: a federated union of localnets that act like banks and data banks in one. A local facility I can resort to for my financial and computational needs. My email, phone services, VPN, and bank all rolled up nicely into one area. And, of course, it should also keep me anonymous except to the provider. The IT would be a nightmare.

Re: Most Canadians believe Facebook harms their mental health

#254

Post by labster » Sat, Oct 16, 2021, 5:40 AM UTC

marticode wrote: post #252

kazinator wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Replace "Facebook" with "language" here ... > And I see how [language] is exacerbating this. I see how these things are poisoning his mind, fantasies weaved by other mentally ill people. It's just sad, when I thought about it and dawned on me most of those _wild_ conspiracy theories are people that need help feeding each other's sickness. > I think it is harmful and [language] does induce bad states in people that wo…

Wow this is such a bad faith attempt at exonerating Facebook that I don't know where to even start. No the issue isn't language, the issue is Facebook way of pushing outrage-inducing content and isolating people in bubbles of ever more radicalized content. Spend some time on https://www.reddit.com/r/QAnonCasualties/ and come back tell us how the problem is "language" and not social medias.

But without language, how could they communicate these harmful ideas? People use language to spread hate speech. Even the code base of Facebook is written in a language. This is why we need a doubleplusgood conlang alternative like Newspeak! We can then unfollow crimethink terrorinfo and hatespeak. Facebook is just a plusvictim here of enemy agitprop.

Re: Most Canadians believe Facebook harms their mental health

#255

Post by RealityVoid » Sat, Oct 16, 2021, 6:00 AM UTC

joe_the_user wrote: post #241

verve_rat wrote: post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So just give up? Do nothing? If we think these things are harmful and those harms outweigh the good, then we should do something. Even if it is just a higher tax rate for Social Media companies to help pay for the clean up of the damage. Sin taxes work, but in this case you'd have to apply them to the real customers, advertisers, somehow.

So just give up? Do nothing? Provide help on a variety of levels (peers, professionals, etc). The idea that mechanical restriction social networking could be the answer is just misguided. And it's not social media that are doing the damage but the interaction of social media and those with existing problems. If we think these things are harmful and those harms outweigh the good, then we should do something. I can see…

I think you have very good points, and, honestly, I have no answer for them. I see the tension between too much/too little censorship.

And obviously, the blame is not only on FB, there is an ecosystem of websites that feed into each other. I mentioned Youtube as also having had a big role in this.

I also see their usefulness. But the damage they are doing needs to be tackled somehow. And me not having a solution does not mean there is none. Surely other, smarter people can find one.

One thing to tackle would be the algorithm and the way it feeds into this addiction. It obviously is good for FB but bad for the user. And absolutely no one says... "Gee, I so love that FB is addictive." You could get the benefits of FB without the feed that pulls you the most it can to stay.

FB could also downrank _all_ political or polarizing content (hah, came to agree with HN on this, incredible). Obviously, FB is not a place to have reasoned discussion about politics and news and things of consistence. So downgrade them in the algo, and then the self-enforcing feedback loop should tone down in this area.

It's a tough problem but one that exists and cannot be ignored.

Re: Most Canadians believe Facebook harms their mental health

#256

Post by RealityVoid » Sat, Oct 16, 2021, 6:03 AM UTC

joe_the_user wrote: post #240

verve_rat wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But there are healthy connections and unhealthy connections. Is it possible that there might be a way to encourage the healthy ones and discourage the unhealthy ones? Just because social media works the way it does now doesn't mean it has to always work like that. These things are constructed by humans and we can change them if we want. There is nothing intrinsic in Facebook or YouTube that says they must promote "en…

But there are healthy connections and unhealthy connections. Is it possible that there might be a way to encourage the healthy ones and discourage the unhealthy ones? There has been talk of Facebook actually using algorithms to make mental health interventions. The problem is that I don't think that many users find some automatically generated warning credible. Just because social media works the way it does now does…

They can make the interventions much more subtle and palatable than just a dry warning. Subtly changing the feed to nudge the person on another path could do this. It is manipulation, but maybe some people need it.

Re: Most Canadians believe Facebook harms their mental health

#257

Post by [deleted] » Sat, Oct 16, 2021, 7:03 AM UTC

marticode wrote: post #252

kazinator wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Replace "Facebook" with "language" here ... > And I see how [language] is exacerbating this. I see how these things are poisoning his mind, fantasies weaved by other mentally ill people. It's just sad, when I thought about it and dawned on me most of those _wild_ conspiracy theories are people that need help feeding each other's sickness. > I think it is harmful and [language] does induce bad states in people that wo…

Wow this is such a bad faith attempt at exonerating Facebook that I don't know where to even start. No the issue isn't language, the issue is Facebook way of pushing outrage-inducing content and isolating people in bubbles of ever more radicalized content. Spend some time on https://www.reddit.com/r/QAnonCasualties/ and come back tell us how the problem is "language" and not social medias.

[deleted]

Re: Most Canadians believe Facebook harms their mental health

#258

Post by kazinator » Sat, Oct 16, 2021, 7:13 AM UTC

marticode wrote: post #252

kazinator wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Replace "Facebook" with "language" here ... > And I see how [language] is exacerbating this. I see how these things are poisoning his mind, fantasies weaved by other mentally ill people. It's just sad, when I thought about it and dawned on me most of those _wild_ conspiracy theories are people that need help feeding each other's sickness. > I think it is harmful and [language] does induce bad states in people that wo…

Wow this is such a bad faith attempt at exonerating Facebook that I don't know where to even start. No the issue isn't language, the issue is Facebook way of pushing outrage-inducing content and isolating people in bubbles of ever more radicalized content. Spend some time on https://www.reddit.com/r/QAnonCasualties/ and come back tell us how the problem is "language" and not social medias.

Facebook is so harmlessly impotent, it has not even managed to get me to create an account.

You know, maybe spend less time on QAnon-anything.

Re: Most Canadians believe Facebook harms their mental health

#259

Post by ArtDev » Sat, Oct 16, 2021, 7:36 AM UTC

starik36 wrote: post #6

It would be interesting to see whether people think news networks also harm their mental health.

Yes but I have found that, in the case of Google News, the content prioritized up by the algorithm tends to be things I am interested in; which tend to be more commercial in nature. For example, boardgames.

If I was clicking on outrageous type news headlines, it might look different.

I have disciplined my curiosity to not click on obnoxious viral headlines.

I see a click as a vote, so I don't do that.

Social Media is trickier because the media and the social part is mixed up. I quit social media about 7 months ago and I don't see going back.

Re: Most Canadians believe Facebook harms their mental health

#260

Post by RealityVoid » Sat, Oct 16, 2021, 7:57 AM UTC

kazinator wrote: post #258

marticode wrote: post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow this is such a bad faith attempt at exonerating Facebook that I don't know where to even start. No the issue isn't language, the issue is Facebook way of pushing outrage-inducing content and isolating people in bubbles of ever more radicalized content. Spend some time on https://www.reddit.com/r/QAnonCasualties/ and come back tell us how the problem is "language" and not social medias.

Facebook is so harmlessly impotent, it has not even managed to get me to create an account. You know, maybe spend less time on QAnon-anything.

The fact it is impotent for you does not mean it is impotent in general. That is my exact point. I have hardly any problem with FB usage, but I see many people dear to me that do.

I imagined that this is a problem that will go by itself. That people will inoculate themselves against conspiracy. But now, I'm not so sure.