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PinePhone Pro Announced

pine64.org

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Re: PinePhone Pro Announced

#251

Post by deaddodo »

robbedpeter wrote: post #218
djent wrote: post #163

It is frustrating to me that despite the blunt verbiage about it being a beta device for software and hardware developers, people even here are griping about it being not ready for everyday use. If a free and open-source mobile operating system is missing software support for a feature you want, please contribute to its development.

How many hundreds or thousands of enthusiasts are needed before it's suitable to be a daily driver? I see the fragmented approach on the software side as a major hindrance to the goal of achieving a device that can be used by a normal person as a reasonable replacement for other smart phones. I check in on it every l every 6 months or so, update my pinephone and give it a few days. So far, it doesn't meet reliability…

I don't know if fragmented is the right word. Just like desktop Linux, mobile Linux has pretty much settled on one major standard (Phosh a la Gnome) and slightly less popular alternative (Plasma Mobile a la KDE). Sure, you can go about customizing it to your whims, but fragmentation isn't nearly that bad, especially since the distribution options are so much lesser.

The problem really is getting the commercial software people want on the phone. But if you just want to use it as a phone (e.g. no special apps or mobile games), it does most of that in a pretty streamlined manner (albeit, rougher than the commercial options).

Re: PinePhone Pro Announced

#252

Post by zeta0134 »

LeifCarrotson wrote: post #119

It has a Quectel EG25-G modem. I've not used this particular device, but I have used Quectel GNSS modules, and they've been a surprisingly helpful company to work with. I'm a nobody, and working with Sony, Trimble, or ublox has been an exercise in frustration; you have to convince a salesperson that you're a big company and you can sell thousands of devices in order to just read the datasheet. This one does have some…

My biggest question is, if I buy this phone today, with AT&T allow it on their network? My gut says no, they've been brandishing an ugly whitelist around for their big LTE push in February...

Re: PinePhone Pro Announced

#253

Post by CameronNemo »

ocdtrekkie wrote: post #245
CameronNemo wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is hostile about the OS? Early development or not, the rk3399 is a 5 year old SoC.

An advertising company has a root-level backdoor to the device?

You should be able to run degoogled android on the device.

Re: PinePhone Pro Announced

#254

Post by megous »

no_time wrote: post #184
unexpected wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel like programmers have become "soft". I bet the old guard is okay with something like this - a lot of C, C++, assembly skills - this is what it meant to mess around with computers! Now, you can just be modifying CSS and call yourself a programmer. You get one of these devices, and you're sorely disappointed!

As the complexity of our every day devices increase, less and less people are capable of contributing anything meaningful to an OS like Linux, let alone in their free time. It also doesn't help that the abundance of high level languages discourages learning about computer internals in younger generations. Or that we indeed became softies lol.

Language is very small part of it. For example me contributing a anx7688 driver for pinephone to make convergence work was C coding, yes, but also reading through type-c spec, battery charging 1.2 spec, usb-pd specs, alt-dp specs, and figuring out how it all works from 0 knowledge, to tie all that together on a quirky HW design, with several hardware bugs that I had to discover first, and non-cooperating PMIC/and type-c controller, on 3 different pinephone HW variants.

C coding is the easiest thing. Hard part is figuring out what needs to be done and getting quite detailed understanding of how everything works on HW level, lots of trying and testing with various USB devices in various scenarios. There's also a lot of reverse engineering, because no HW vendor cooperates with random fucks from the internet and gives them free support. :)

Re: PinePhone Pro Announced

#255

Post by abawany »

ghoward wrote: post #182
freeopinion wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes

Thank you! I have more questions if you don't mind. Is the experience alright? Are there any gotchas that I would need to know?

An anecdote: my eye opener was when I connected mine (3gb/32gb) to a usb-c hub (after seeing Martjin Braam's YT video on it) and was able to then connect it to my 27" hp monitor via hdmi and attach my keyboard/mouse as well: any complaints I had about Pinephone's 'rough edges' up to that point (which tbh, were plenty) disappeared.

Generally speaking though, the performance will be pretty sad and the device will get fairly hot during normal use. I am looking forward to getting this new device (Pro) at some point to see the improved performance. The software also keeps improving. When I got it (as a ubports 2gb edition, I later upgraded to the 3gb board), the software was in poor shape so I put it away for a bit. Mobian versions starting last summer really improved on the usability though.

Re: PinePhone Pro Announced

#256

Post by josteink »

RussianCow wrote: post #219
josteink wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I have some standards for my toys though. If it’s sold as a phone, it should actually work as a phone (even a shitty one). It is sold as Phone hardware with explicit remarks about software being a community effort and that you load it with whatever you like. Does someone who sells you a PC (HW) promise you that the software you load on it later will be bug-free? Of course not. That’s not a hardware-matter. Same her…

> Does someone who sells you a PC (HW) promise you that the software you load on it later will be bug-free? No, but if someone was selling PCs with super buggy software that regularly crashes your OS or prevents everyday functionality from working, people would be returning those PCs en masse, even if the hardware maker wasn't responsible for the software at all.[0] Even if you only "sell" the hardware, customers exp…

> No, but if someone was selling PCs with super buggy software

What you’re clearing missing is that they are not selling you software.

They are selling you open, unlocked hardware to run software on, with no promises/liabilities about the software. Just like Intel, AMD, ARM, MSI, Asus, Kingston and a lot of other hardware suppliers. They even explicitly state this when you buy the phone.

They are explicitly not selling you a combined hardware/software package like Apple does with the iPhone or OEMs are doing with Android.

How can you then complain about this later?

Edit: You might even say that this combined HW/SW appliance-model applied by the rest of the smartphone market is the exact thing they are fighting against.

They are selling HW as HW, leaving users free to run the software they prefer.

Re: PinePhone Pro Announced

#257

Post by systemvoltage »

TobTobXX wrote: post #235
systemvoltage wrote: post #91

I want to see a radically different approach to Phone user interfaces. It's just the same cookie cutter trends from Apple and Google.

Take a look at sxmo[0]. It is inspired by the niche of tiling window managers and shortcut-driven workflow. I don't know if it is your style, but it qualifies as radiaclly different. [0]: https://sxmo.org/

This is awesome, thanks for sharing. I am a huge fan of suckless tools and despite of the fact that it is niche, I agree, it is radically different.

Re: PinePhone Pro Announced

#258

Post by megous »

pengaru wrote: post #188
jjmellon wrote: post #17

I received a Pinephone in the latest shipment, about three weeks ago. I also got the convergence dock to be able to attach a monitor, keyboard and mouse. I am extremely motivated to get off Android on my phone, and yet my Pinephone has already been discarded (and I never even put a SIM card in it). There are far too many out-of-the-box bugs and glitches to consider this a usable product. For example, the convergence…

> For example, the convergence dock will not display on a monitor. I recently watched a presentation [0] that focused on the pinephone state-of-affairs, and it did not leave me with the impression the dock couldn't display on a monitor. Are you sure you're not just experiencing some pathological incompatibility problem? Or am I going senile and need to re-watch the video? [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PuEL_GJ1Y…

He's experiencing a known HW issue, most likely. There's a manual workaround for now: https://xnux.eu/log/#045

I'll implement a SW workaround eventually, but I'm still recuperating a bit from the work on the Pinephopne keyboard. Once it's released, donations will hopefully increase a bit again, and I'll be able to do more development other than a kernel maintenance.

Now there's also Pinephone Pro and Quartz64 based router sitting on my table which I'm mostly playing with these days, so I'm a bit torn on where to focus my energy next. :)

Re: PinePhone Pro Announced

#259

Post by 29083011397778 »

RDaneel0livaw wrote: post #134
29083011397778 wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If that's the bar, then mobile Linux is simultaneously very fucking far, and dramatically closer than most people might think. As far as messaging apps, they're all technically there - the best kind of there for the crowd that this would interest. Spinning up a Matrix server means maybe a days work for this crowd, which allows (and I currently use it for) Whatsapp, Signal, Telegram, and more. Even better, due to cons…

For some reason it won't let me reply to your newer message, there just is no reply button at all, very strange, anyway, putting my reply to your second message here. Thanks so much for the info! I don't ever do calls on whatsapp, so this sounds absolutely amazing for me! I also see that I can bridge in slack as well so now all the sudden I may be able to bridge all my work stuff into one matrix instance and remove t…

No worries! Feel free to drop me a line if you want / need any help with the bridges @xethos:xethos.net - I'd be happy to help another person (potentially) switch over to Matrix + bridges.

Re: PinePhone Pro Announced

#260

Post by squarefoot »

betwixthewires wrote: post #37
jjmellon wrote: post #17

I received a Pinephone in the latest shipment, about three weeks ago. I also got the convergence dock to be able to attach a monitor, keyboard and mouse. I am extremely motivated to get off Android on my phone, and yet my Pinephone has already been discarded (and I never even put a SIM card in it). There are far too many out-of-the-box bugs and glitches to consider this a usable product. For example, the convergence…

In the article we are discussing, the gist of your concerns is addressed. The pinephone (and mobile Linux in general) is extremely immature and only really for hobbyists and people developing for it. You expected a daily driver, right now it is a toy for nerds. Lack of users, investment and too many competing distros were all given in the early days of desktop Linux as reasons why it was simply not worthwhile. The th…

> When you buy one of these devices you're not buying a Linux phone, you're choosing to participate in the process by which a Linux phone becomes a reality.

That is very true, and I would add that some of this reality is already in front of us. How many Android or Apple devices can run full featured office suites, graphics and audio manipulation software, development systems etc. complete browsers, electronics simulation software, etc, and I mean the real ones, not cut down mobile versions, all for free? Probably none. The problem with the PinePhone is that it still lacks functionality in those two fields where 99.9% of normal non tech users would want it to excel, that is, calls and messaging. Non tech users want it for calls, SMS, MMS and Whatsapp, period, and they very much prefer a costly Android or Apple phone that addresses those needs although it would be way inferior in everything else, including privacy and security. I think the PinePhone developers are already addressing some of these requirements, so hopefully it's a matter of time, but for most people, being able to run the WhatsApp client at decent speed would be the killer feature. No matter if run sandboxed with Android libraries, under a VM or reverse engineered; WhatsApp compatibility is the #1 feature that could bring the most users on the PinePhone bandwagon.

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