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Former Boeing 737 Max Chief Technical Pilot Indicted for Fraud

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331–340 of 367 posts

Re: Former Boeing 737 Max Chief Technical Pilot Indicted for Fraud

#331

Earlier quoted context omitted.

... and for most of the agencies, it's not that their budget is small or the agency itself is incompetent: it's what's required by law and they can't override it unless Congress decides to change the laws.

You don't want regulatory agencies creating law on their own though. Not only is that unconstitutional but the reason its unconstitutional is because you would inevitably end up with some busybody who is not accountable to the people massively over stepping their power and creating tyranny.

Regulatory agencies create "laws" all the time. When Congress creates legislation, they rarely spell out all the details and implementations. This is left to the agency to interpret, and they have a wide latitude in both interpretation and enforcement.

Re: Former Boeing 737 Max Chief Technical Pilot Indicted for Fraud

#332

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, it's a memory item on the 737. Pretty short too. http://www.b737.org.uk/images/runawaystab1975.jpg Not to mention I think they ran the plane at full takeoff power during the recovery attempt - I can't even imagine what they were doing in terms of speed monitoring (in a nose down you normally reduce power, no go to full takeoff!).

The pre-MAX 737 has a cut-off switch that switches of the automatic trim system, without also switching of the electric trim (there's another one that switches off the electric trim). The 737 MAX also has two switches, but they both switch off the automatic trim (including MCAS) and the electric trim. So you can't switch off MCAS without also switching off electric trim, leaving only manual trim. But in situations li…

The electric trim switches override MCAS. The LA crew overrode MCAS to restore normal trim 25 times. The EA crew did it twice.

Re: Former Boeing 737 Max Chief Technical Pilot Indicted for Fraud

#333
post #164

It is important to note that Boeing settled for 2.5 billion in which it is agreed that "...the misconduct by its former employees was “neither pervasive across the organization, nor undertaken by a large number of employees, nor facilitated by senior management". ( https://www.wsj.com/articles/boeing-reaches-2-5-billion-sett... ). So remember, when push comes to shove, the technical lead always gets thrown to the wol…

It's possible this is the initial charge to get them in the door with search warrants and subpoenas and testimony because someone dropped a dime with some info that there were criminal acts not know to the government at the time, not covered by the settlement. I doubt the settlement was a "you're pardoned for ALL acts related to 737 MAX." A refresher since this happened so long ago: Airbus was eating Boeing's 737 sal…

Boeing's defense of this POS system is also mind-boggling. "Oh, since we put inappropriate engines on an outdated airframe, the airplane would pitch up under heavy thrust... so we cobbled together this amateur-hour system to mask that behavior."

If a pilot can't control the airplane's pitch, he's not a pilot. Boeing's excuses don't even begin to qualify as excuses.

"You're posting too fast. Please slow down. Thanks."

I HAVEN'T POSTED IN AT LEAST AN HOUR, ASSHOLES. AND IF I'M NOT ELIGIBLE TO POST, WHY DID YOU LET ME PRESS THE "REPLY" BUTTON AND TYPE OUT A BUNCH OF VERBIAGE?

HACKER NEWS = USER-HATING JAGOFFS

Re: Former Boeing 737 Max Chief Technical Pilot Indicted for Fraud

#334
post #164

It is important to note that Boeing settled for 2.5 billion in which it is agreed that "...the misconduct by its former employees was “neither pervasive across the organization, nor undertaken by a large number of employees, nor facilitated by senior management". ( https://www.wsj.com/articles/boeing-reaches-2-5-billion-sett... ). So remember, when push comes to shove, the technical lead always gets thrown to the wol…

I was thinking this too. Seems to be a pattern since Volkswagen scandal; blame the rank and file employee... As if the employee had any incentive at all to lie about the performance of the plane. This is disgusting. The directors who pressured the employee to lie and then tried to use them as a scapegoat should be jailed for life.

I also thought of VW in this context. The idea that the managers only set policy and it's up to the engineers to figure it out, lesving management with "plausible deniability".

Re: Former Boeing 737 Max Chief Technical Pilot Indicted for Fraud

#335
post #312

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would imagine they could test multiple planes at the same time.

Sure. So you take half the staff and put them on testing a second plane. Then each individual plane takes 10 years to test instead. (Remember that you don't gain person-hours for free just by shuffling people around.) What would this accomplish? Instead of a total system time average of 10 years, you now get an average testing time of 10 years to which you still need to add the queuing time, so you're even worse off…

... or increase the staffing[1] to a degree where you can do more than the absolute bare minimum when lives are on the line

1: https://www.aviationtoday.com/2021/06/03/faa-asks-budget-inc....

When there's a defined process that appears to run in isolation, I don't see why there should be only one queue in this case, considering that the task length cannot be easily reduced.

Re: Former Boeing 737 Max Chief Technical Pilot Indicted for Fraud

#336

Earlier quoted context omitted.

... and for most of the agencies, it's not that their budget is small or the agency itself is incompetent: it's what's required by law and they can't override it unless Congress decides to change the laws.

You don't want regulatory agencies creating law on their own though. Not only is that unconstitutional but the reason its unconstitutional is because you would inevitably end up with some busybody who is not accountable to the people massively over stepping their power and creating tyranny.

Look up Administrative law, and prepare for the pucker moment when you realize that what you described is actually exactly how it works.

Re: Former Boeing 737 Max Chief Technical Pilot Indicted for Fraud

#337

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think this style of regulation is limited to FAA. FDA does not independently test all drugs either. They just review and ensure the drug companies' tests are acceptable.

Of course the FDA has to regulate 10s of 1000s of companies\drugs\trials. The FAA basically just oversees Boeing and Airbus in the large commercial jet market and either offers 10s of models...

The FAA oversees all portions of pilot licensing, airplane manufacture, airplane service, operations, traffic control, idiots with drones, etc, for general and commercial aviation in the entire country.

Certifying new commercial models is but a small portion of what they do. By number of employees and budget I would bet that ATC is actually their biggest responsibility. That's not to say that they should just rubber stamp all that...

Re: Former Boeing 737 Max Chief Technical Pilot Indicted for Fraud

#338

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What you talk about the FAA doing thier own testing and validation is (unfortunately) almost impossible. Back in the 90s, a senior FAA official (I think a Director) had said something along the lines of “The FAA does not and cannot check everything, we just see that companies are doing their tests.” The FAA would require several times more manpower to be able to actually audit or test everything, and that is assuming…

I don't think this style of regulation is limited to FAA. FDA does not independently test all drugs either. They just review and ensure the drug companies' tests are acceptable.

Yeah, people are are drastically underestimating how enormous the testing apparatus is at a company like Boeing. It's thousands of employees. Expecting the FAA to duplicate those efforts is ridiculous.

I don't know much about the FAA, but as someone who works in healthcare, I know the FDA conducts regular audits of medical device manufacturers.

They roll in for a week, request access to everything and everywhere, then pick a handful of areas (randomly) to do a full deep-dive. Generally, if a company is cutting corners, discrepancies will exist in many areas and they'll quickly spot one or more of them. I assume the FAA operates similarly.

Re: Former Boeing 737 Max Chief Technical Pilot Indicted for Fraud

#339

Earlier quoted context omitted.

... and for most of the agencies, it's not that their budget is small or the agency itself is incompetent: it's what's required by law and they can't override it unless Congress decides to change the laws.

You don't want regulatory agencies creating law on their own though. Not only is that unconstitutional but the reason its unconstitutional is because you would inevitably end up with some busybody who is not accountable to the people massively over stepping their power and creating tyranny.

> Not only is that unconstitutional

While I do study relevant US laws as required in my job (requiring familiarity with how law operates in countries where we operate), I am not an American, but I do understand certain things with regards to the US constitution and relevant case laws.

The Congress originally meets only for a few months' time, usually less than 6 months. This is due to the reality of the time, where travel is slow and representatives only receive a comparable salary to most people. Thus, it is exactly empowered to delegate certain powers to the executive branch. As someone mentioned, the administrative law is a cornerstone law and yet it delegates many powers to the executive branch.

In fact, said law and many, many, many similar (federal) laws have been upheld constitutional in the Supreme Court. There are certain powers that only Congress can do, and cannot be delegated to the executive branch, but it is clearly laid out in the constitution what those are (notably spending). Now I said federal because in certain states, the legislature can only delegate in very narrow situations (usually only in cases where lives would be in danger or in the protection of properties and where a need of immediate response is demonstrated).

So I'm confused why are you saying that is unconstitutional, in fact American history shows a very different answer. If you think that should be not allowed, you're entitled to your own opinion. However unless I read it incorrectly, the constitution, even considering the various amendments, is unfortunately not aligned with your opinion.

Re: Former Boeing 737 Max Chief Technical Pilot Indicted for Fraud

#340

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The 737 Max is not aerodynamically unstable. I don’t know where people got this idea. The purpose of MCAS is to match existing stick pressure progression in certain situations. It’s not a fly-by-wire system like the F-16.

Not just existing stick pressure progression, but required stick pressure progression. As far as I understand it, in that specific situation the 737 MAX without MCAS does not comply with the rules regarding aerodynamic stability. It's not dramatic, doesn't manifest itself in normal flight, and could be dealt with by pilots quite easily as far as I understand it. But it's a rule, and it was important enough for Boeing…

This is correct. It is non-compliance for control stick forces to slacken towards a stall on a passenger carrying aircraft. They put a gadget in the system to render it compliant.

Unfortunately, they did not work as hard as they should have to ensure that it would not malfunction. Or to make sure if it did pilot's were aware and had a chance to develop muscle memory for it.

All of that was Management's push.

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