Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

The Decline of Django

david-dahan.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

131–140 of 173 posts

Re: The Decline of Django

#131

Post by ehutch79 »

julienpalard wrote: post #65
mtberatwork wrote: post #44

Eh, "[insert stable, mature MVC framework] is dying/dead/etc" articles are a dime a dozen on the Web. I suppose it could be considered a badge of honor for a framework to have some internet punter declare the framework as "dead". But, just to nitpick... > Bad Official Admin GUI UX For anyone reading, Django's admin tool is designed for situations in which you need to stand up a quick admin or build some internal admi…

Django fan here, but honest question: is there a Flask admin at least as good as Django admin?

Likely not. The Django admin is very much tied to its ORM. That's what makes it so easy to get working.

Re: The Decline of Django

#132

Post by nostrademons »

I mean, web development is kinda like that 40 year guy who feels "in" using Facebook. As an industry it's 25 years old and approaching maturity. The author cites Node and TypeScript as where the cool kids are, but that was where the cool kids were 8 years ago.

The cool kids today are into cryptocurrencies, AI, and robotics. Even there, some of the frameworks you probably think of bleeding edge are already losing mindshare. TensorFlow is giving way to JAX, Bitcoin already gave way to Ethereum which is itself getting eclipsed by Algorand, Cardano, and Solana.

Re: The Decline of Django

#133

Post by pbalau »

scrollaway wrote: post #112
pbalau wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Django has one of the best source code base I ever saw, in 20+ years of doing software. If anyone has issues reading the Django source code, they probably should stay away from software development.

> If anyone has issues reading the Django source code, they probably should stay away from software development. First of all, juniors exist you know that right? Please don't gatekeep. Second, you're wrong. The Django codebase is overall good quality but if it's "one of the best you ever saw in 20 years" you haven't dug deep. Django has a lot of horrible no good bad awful parts to it. To their credit they tend to imp…

> Second, you're wrong.

So you know better than me what source code I've read so far? Do you also happen to know what did I do with my spare camera battery? That could be useful.

Re: The Decline of Django

#134

Post by ehutch79 »

TameAntelope wrote: post #39

1) Documentation is too verbose 2) Onboarding new developers lacks IDE specific tooling for free 3) Admin GUI isn't great 4) Async support is still incomplete 5) Static types aren't used in Django 6) Django is MVC which isn't useful if you just need a light V 7) People ignore other, newer tech because Django exists What??? 4 and 5 are legit complaints, the rest is literally the nittiest of picks, in my opinion. You d…

I don't know about #4. I use async several places in my django 2.x project without issue. I'm not entirely sure where django it self might need to be made async

Re: The Decline of Django

#135

Post by spurgu »

zzzeek wrote: post #77

> Django looks like the 40 years old guy who feels "in" using Facebook, while everyone else is already using Instagram or TikTok. wow fuck ageist bullshit like this. everyone knows I'm no big Django advocate but what is the point of a blog post like this? I'm not seeing how effort spent on writing articles like this makes the world better for anybody, including the author. Go create something? >But what if tomorrow,…

Wow you seem quite sensitive. It's an analogy from the author's perspective, you don't have to take it personally just because it happens to clash with your own perspective.

Re: The Decline of Django

#136

Post by p1esk »

nostrademons wrote: post #132

I mean, web development is kinda like that 40 year guy who feels "in" using Facebook. As an industry it's 25 years old and approaching maturity. The author cites Node and TypeScript as where the cool kids are, but that was where the cool kids were 8 years ago. The cool kids today are into cryptocurrencies, AI, and robotics. Even there, some of the frameworks you probably think of bleeding edge are already losing mind…

The cool kids today are into cryptocurrencies, AI, and robotics

That too is where the cool kids were 8 years ago... Even I was into all that 8 years ago and I was never a "cool kid". I have no idea what the cool kids are into these days. AI is still hot though, so perhaps they are building GPT-4.

Re: The Decline of Django

#137

Post by ajford »

Chris2048 wrote: post #61
jonnycomputer wrote: post #48

Found lots of things rubbed me the wrong way about this post, though tbh I really haven't done Django dev; only Flask. I'll just nitpick on their bagging on Pycharm. Pycharm is great. Frankly, I like it better than VS Code; though I do grant VS Code has its strengths, especially as a lightweight capable code editor.

Pycharm gets little love, esp comapred to the free alternative, VS code. I actually like, use, and pay for PyCharm, but it annoys me when JB chase new (ds) customers with DataSpell, or teams management stuff with "Space", When long standing, trivial Pycharm bugs have gone unfixed for years; https://youtrack.jetbrains.com/issue/PY-14743 [0]. I have no hope Pycharm will innovate any time soon, and will eventually fall…

That's par for the course with JetBrains. I'm a big fan of PyCharm, don't get me wrong. It was the first IDE I've tried out of maybe a dozen that actually gave me a reason to convert from Vim with plugins and a number of self-written project mgmt/organization tools.

That said, JetBrains often rolls out new things while sitting on long-standing bugs. There's three or four issues in PyCharm and TeamCity that I've been tracking for a couple of years that are older than my kids. Hell, I think one of the TeamCity issues is almost old enough to get a learner's permit.

Re: The Decline of Django

#138

Post by Chris2048 »

Django is (or was) one of the "famous" Python frameworks (there was a time when most Python jobs where Django jobs, or the "gateway" to Python was via Django).

Yet I also thought it broke a few Python conventions, being fairly tightly coupled..

Re: The Decline of Django

#139

Post by ajford »

robertwt7 wrote: post #38

Django is good. But I’ve used laravel and .bet core a lot before trying django for my personal projects. Honestly I get what the author meant by the docs is overly documented. It’s not to the point, also it’s hard to find things. Aside from all the sweet things you get with django, creating an api only project feels very “hacky” for me with an extra package to install (DRF)

That's my main issue with Django, and why I prefer a "bring your own modules" framework like Flask. Django is very "batteries included", but if you're not using the full Django paradigm, it gets more finicky.

That said, Django with DRF to float an API-only project/backend is almost standard at this point, and a great option if the devs are already familiar with Django. They can leverage the existing experience and get right to work without needing to get up to speed with a new framework.

In regards to the documentation, the module index can help a bit. If you know the module space you need to be in (i.e. you need to do something with the DB), just jumping into the module index and looking for entries in relation to django.db can get you in the ballpark real quick.

Re: The Decline of Django

#140

Post by scrollaway »

pbalau wrote: post #133
scrollaway wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If anyone has issues reading the Django source code, they probably should stay away from software development. First of all, juniors exist you know that right? Please don't gatekeep. Second, you're wrong. The Django codebase is overall good quality but if it's "one of the best you ever saw in 20 years" you haven't dug deep. Django has a lot of horrible no good bad awful parts to it. To their credit they tend to imp…

> Second, you're wrong. So you know better than me what source code I've read so far? Do you also happen to know what did I do with my spare camera battery? That could be useful.

Did you check your desk? Get a second pair of eyes, it's always in front of you and you don't realize it.

If you're going to state opinions as facts, you can't then come back and tell people "oh so you know my own opinions better than me?!".

Post reply on HN