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Trust-Busting as the Unsexy Answer to Google and Facebook

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Re: Trust-Busting as the Unsexy Answer to Google and Facebook

#41
post #4

How does breaking up Facebook help fight misinformation, polarization, engagement baiting, objectionable content, etc?

What if we just want to break up Facebook for our enjoyment? It's legal to do so and we can do it. I can't remember where I heard that argument. I think it was some tech CEO (or maybe all of them).

> How does breaking up Facebook help fight misinformation, polarization, engagement baiting, objectionable content, etc?

Re: Trust-Busting as the Unsexy Answer to Google and Facebook

#42

Trust busting can seem like it’s anti free market, but when a company has a monopoly on a network it stops functioning as a company and basically becomes a government. The problem with Facebook/Amazon/Google is that they have a monopoly on a specific information network, for Facebook the social graph, internet discoverability for Google, and online shopping for Amazon. It’s similar to if a single company owned the ro…

What I want addressed is how we can bust these companies without making the experience worse for consumers or making things less efficient.

A railroad that'd require a toll every mile because you split one company into hundreds wouldn't be viable. If I had to visit multiple web pages to get the same result as a google search, that'd also be bad.

Amazon online shopping has a "monopoly" almost purely because the monopoliness makes it much easier and lower friction than trying to find an online store that is 1) somewhat trustworthy 2) consistent UI 3) ships in a reasonable time 4) isn't going to disappear (and importantly, already has my shipping and payment information). I regularly buy stuff online from elsewhere, but I use Amazon more often because it reduces the cognitive load by centralizing/standardizing everything.

Re: Trust-Busting as the Unsexy Answer to Google and Facebook

#43
post #37

People should educate themselves about decentralization technologies. That's really the direction for resolving these issues. And the first thing you will realize when you start to study them is that in a way the name 'decentralization' is misleading because they are actually the best ways we know of to keep holistic systems. But we get that without the actual physical or organizational centralization and at the same…

If you mean cryptocurrencies or blockchain, you could hardly find a better argument for the efficiency benefits of centralization.

Re: Trust-Busting as the Unsexy Answer to Google and Facebook

#44
post #25

We should consider technologies a public good once they go over some threshold of users, they should then eiter be nationalized or regulated as public or broken up.

So then what if social networks capped the number of users at 1 below that threshold? For example, if nationalization occurs at 1 million users, what if all social networks limited the number of accounts to 999,999?. Personally I think that would be awesome. Imagine if every town, city, and borough of very large cities had their own independent social network or networks.

You could do it the same way you would break up the banks. Just put a tax on companies with more users than e.g. 1M. Instead of a systemic risk tax, make it a data security tax; because once you're past a certain size, the negative externalities caused by a security failure justify the tax.

Re: Trust-Busting as the Unsexy Answer to Google and Facebook

#45

Trust busting can seem like it’s anti free market, but when a company has a monopoly on a network it stops functioning as a company and basically becomes a government. The problem with Facebook/Amazon/Google is that they have a monopoly on a specific information network, for Facebook the social graph, internet discoverability for Google, and online shopping for Amazon. It’s similar to if a single company owned the ro…

"when a company has a monopoly on a network it... basically becomes a government."

A monopoly functions like a government.

Or inverted: a government functions like a monopoly.

I find both angles interesting.

Re: Trust-Busting as the Unsexy Answer to Google and Facebook

#46

Trust busting can seem like it’s anti free market, but when a company has a monopoly on a network it stops functioning as a company and basically becomes a government. The problem with Facebook/Amazon/Google is that they have a monopoly on a specific information network, for Facebook the social graph, internet discoverability for Google, and online shopping for Amazon. It’s similar to if a single company owned the ro…

I know this is the inevitable and cliche pushback, but it never seems to be grappled with so it remains worth pointing out: none of the three things you mentioned are anywhere close to monopolies. There are lots of social networks (Twitter and TikTok are extremely successful, among others), lots of ways to search the internet, and lots of ways to shop online. The analogy with the railroads simply is not apt, their monopoly was so powerful because there was often no other way to get from point A to point B, so they had complete leverage. This is not the case for any of these companies you listed, there is a lot of competition in all these markets.

But I also think there are major issues with the current configuration of the tech industry! They just aren't because of monopolies. It is not helpful to misdiagnose a real problem. It is not helpful to have only a hammer and call every problem a nail.

Re: Trust-Busting as the Unsexy Answer to Google and Facebook

#47

Trust busting can seem like it’s anti free market, but when a company has a monopoly on a network it stops functioning as a company and basically becomes a government. The problem with Facebook/Amazon/Google is that they have a monopoly on a specific information network, for Facebook the social graph, internet discoverability for Google, and online shopping for Amazon. It’s similar to if a single company owned the ro…

I'm surprised you don't mention FAANG's egregious censorship.

It's like we're living in some global Orwellian dystopia or some Communist dictatorship.

Re: Trust-Busting as the Unsexy Answer to Google and Facebook

#48

How are Google and Facebook considered trusts in this context but not Apple? I really must be missing something here.

That’s your clue right there. “Break up google” is an aesthetic argument with no sound legal or ethical basis, promoted by people who aesthetically prefer Apple and therefore give that company a free pass.

Re: Trust-Busting as the Unsexy Answer to Google and Facebook

#49

Trust busting can seem like it’s anti free market, but when a company has a monopoly on a network it stops functioning as a company and basically becomes a government. The problem with Facebook/Amazon/Google is that they have a monopoly on a specific information network, for Facebook the social graph, internet discoverability for Google, and online shopping for Amazon. It’s similar to if a single company owned the ro…

"when a company has a monopoly on a network it... basically becomes a government." A monopoly functions like a government. Or inverted: a government functions like a monopoly. I find both angles interesting.

A government is a monopoly on violence, and it uses that monopoly to demand payment.

Re: Trust-Busting as the Unsexy Answer to Google and Facebook

#50

Trust busting can seem like it’s anti free market, but when a company has a monopoly on a network it stops functioning as a company and basically becomes a government. The problem with Facebook/Amazon/Google is that they have a monopoly on a specific information network, for Facebook the social graph, internet discoverability for Google, and online shopping for Amazon. It’s similar to if a single company owned the ro…

We really need a funded and functioning SEC and FTC. They have failed us in the 21st century. However, breaking things up won't be a panacea. It worked in the past but even spinning out Instagram won't open up much space for an Instagram competitor given the existing network effects. To fix some of these issues, I think we need a tax on digital advertising revenue. Right now it is way too profitable to just create click-bait and rake in the money.
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