Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Ubuntu 21.10

ubuntu.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

261–270 of 295 posts

Re: Ubuntu 21.10

#261

Post by nextaccountic »

md8z wrote: post #220
nextaccountic wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the main (or only? not sure) culprit is Firefox (running natively on Wayland) https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1726360 - it reports to be fixed in Firefox 93 but I'm on Firefox 92 still, I guess I should just update. > And I don't think there is much incentive to support this from a hardware perspective either since most people that I see asking for this are using it as a workaround for oddly size…

Those laptops I think would fall in that same category of displays, where the PPI is around 120-180. It's not enough of an enhancement to make the text crisp and not pixelated, and it makes everything look bad unless the apps native to 96 PPI start to implement a certain type of floating point scaling. The higher end laptops of the same size just give you a the same screen but with a higher PPI. Scaling up then scali…

From my point of view, my screen - 1920x1080 at 14", at 189ppi, isn't really what I would call low end. Or at least, not in my country (Brazil).

Low end is 1366x768 at 14", which is 135ppi. Most laptops I see have this resolution.

Re: Ubuntu 21.10

#262

Post by benttoothpaste »

kzrdude wrote: post #173
eecc wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well: * NetworkManager is a dumpster fire. * Wayland is 10 years in the making and it's still barely out of alpha and still missing crucial features such as fractional and consistent scaling. * Pipewire is a welcome attempt to mitigate another source of grief, Pulse Audio. * Gnome? Lets not get started... Please. RedHat has been a boon to the Linux community but it's lack of - how can I put it tactfully - design tast…

Well, Xorg is also missing fractional and consistent scaling - because there are many bugs with it

I use fractional scaling with Xorg so it is not missing. Not sure about consistency. It is acceptable for me though.

Re: Ubuntu 21.10

#263

Post by ArclightMat »

Isthatablackgsd wrote: post #58
TekMol wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I thought the vertical left bar is a "dock". It does not display the titles of the open windows and does not let me arrange the entries. That are the two problems I described. It feels like this is meant to be used on a mobile device rather than on a desktop. On a desktop it makes me way less productive compared to a normal taskbar.

It is the same thing, all OS taskbar does not always behave similarly. That is Unity DE unfortunately, they are trying to "Fisher-Price" everything in there. If you want a better taskbar/dock, try different DE and see how you like it.

That's not Unity, that's GNOME with extensions mimicking Unity.

Also instead of changing desktop environments, he could install the clean/stock GNOME session and then add Dash to Panel + Arc Menu, which would give it a Windows-like taskbar.

Re: Ubuntu 21.10

#264

Post by md8z »

nextaccountic wrote: post #261
md8z wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those laptops I think would fall in that same category of displays, where the PPI is around 120-180. It's not enough of an enhancement to make the text crisp and not pixelated, and it makes everything look bad unless the apps native to 96 PPI start to implement a certain type of floating point scaling. The higher end laptops of the same size just give you a the same screen but with a higher PPI. Scaling up then scali…

From my point of view, my screen - 1920x1080 at 14", at 189ppi, isn't really what I would call low end. Or at least, not in my country (Brazil). Low end is 1366x768 at 14", which is 135ppi. Most laptops I see have this resolution.

I mean low end in the category of high DPI laptops. I think that would be considered mid range in the category of all laptops, that was my take from looking at prices recently anyway. There are high end laptops that are around the same size and have 4K screens.

Re: Ubuntu 21.10

#265

Post by md8z »

josephg wrote: post #226
md8z wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you replace the version of python that the upgrade process expects, then yeah, you'll probably run into problems. The upgrade process can't possibly support every single version of any given package, that would defeat the entire purpose of having a stable release cycle. If it's a core package like python which sits really close to the top of the dependency tree then the effects of swapping that out will cascade do…

That makes sense; though to be clear, you're essentially saying that apt isn't appropriate for 3rd party packages. And that: - The question of which files go in which directories in the system is a question for canonical (or whoever) to decide. Not end users or 3rd party developers - The namespace of apt package names is special, and 3rd party / external dpkgs shouldn't add anything into it I think this stance is ent…

Yes to all of the above. Although namespacing is not enough, the packages need to be built in a specific way so that they don't put files in any system locations. This isn't anything specific to Ubuntu, this is just how Debian works. If you want to do things "the right way" you're supposed to submit your packages upstream and be patient.

This is not exactly a new problem, it's why Docker is popular, it's why Fedora Silverblue and NixOS exist. It's just not done on the OS level in Debian because in some ways it doesn't really need to be.

Re: Ubuntu 21.10

#266

Post by the__alchemist »

md8z wrote: post #215
Talanes wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, it's not the Distro's fault that they didn't design it for how people actually use their computers. How could they have guessed that would be an issue?

I don't understand how you can expect a distro developer to account for every single possible third party repository and package that is out there. That's multiple orders of magnitude more packages that they would have to support and test for, it's simply not feasible. It's reaching into combinatorial explosion. I would actually have serious concerns if a Linux vendor was somehow promising that they could support suc…

Do programs installed via installer executables/scripts also contribute to this problem?

Re: Ubuntu 21.10

#267

Post by nsonha »

orloffm wrote: post #240
nsonha wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

what's wrong with snap? is it that it needs a deamon?

Four issues with Snap: 1) You don't have control over how it updates packages. By default it can eat your LTE if you run your laptop after a while, for example. 2) It's eating into apt world. They are migrating programs into it which could've been usual apt packages. 3) It normalized longer startup times. 4) There are still issues with file system interop etc, but I personally can't provide an example.

> There are still issues with file system interop etc, but I personally can't provide an example.

Is that why my firefox downloads file into a tmp directory instead of ~/Downloads?

I also used to have vscode unable to sudo but it's no longer the case, maybe it's flatpak now, haven't checked

Re: Ubuntu 21.10

#268

Post by md8z »

mdp2021 wrote: post #234
md8z wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The general sentiment I see is that if a feature is only used effectively by a small handful of users then it's probably going to risk getting removed. That's just numbers, it doesn't make a difference whether it's "power users" or any other users. Either way maintainer time is limited and sometimes they have to make a decision to drop a feature that isn't pulling its weight. But I've also never heard any description…

> if a feature is only used effectively by a small handful of users We do automated computing to have tools in general, as we may need them; and we use special features when we need them. Figure imagemagick discriminating options or functions the same way ("Lanczos stays in, but we could ditch Hamming").

Those special features all have a maintenance cost, and if no one is around to pay it then their usefulness will diminish until they reach the threshold where it's not worth it anymore. Not sure why any filtering algorithm would be considered out of the ordinary. Do you know how many scientific and mathematics packages I've seen that are are really old, outdated, and suffering bitrot? Quite a few. In fact that seems to be a field where the old algorithms are discarded fairly regularly in favor of new ones. The older algorithms that remain popular do tend to stick around.

Re: Ubuntu 21.10

#269

Post by md8z »

the__alchemist wrote: post #266
md8z wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand how you can expect a distro developer to account for every single possible third party repository and package that is out there. That's multiple orders of magnitude more packages that they would have to support and test for, it's simply not feasible. It's reaching into combinatorial explosion. I would actually have serious concerns if a Linux vendor was somehow promising that they could support suc…

Do programs installed via installer executables/scripts also contribute to this problem?

If you install them to your home directory, no. If they install to system directories (/usr, /lib, /etc, /var) then they could cause issues. I personally would not run any installer script that asks to use sudo or otherwise give it root permissions, that's a recipe for disaster. If you have to do that, run it in a container.

Re: Ubuntu 21.10

#270

Post by icedchai »

adevx wrote: post #239
icedchai wrote: post #188

I've been running Ubuntu on servers for over 12 years. It generally works great... until you upgrade it to the next major release. I haven't had a smooth Ubuntu upgrade in years. During one upgrade, the system lost the default route. There was some bug with multiple NICs. Another time, it decided to rename all the network interfaces, requiring a bunch of manual reconfiguration. Then for some reason my boot device got…

It probably isn't a configuration that is well tested. I only update servers between LTS releases and take the opportunity to start with a fresh install. I think this makes sense even for Windows servers. Too many things change, not only in hardware configuration/drivers, but also major bumps in software packages eg: nginx, apache, postgresql etc.

Yes, part of my problem was a few of these systems had been through multiple upgrades: 14.04 -> 16.04 -> 20.04. Still, these are all LTS releases. I was able to fix all of these problems by dropping to single user mode. But I've been working with Linux since 1993...
Post reply on HN