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The Decline of Django

david-dahan.com

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Re: The Decline of Django

#61

Post by Chris2048 »

jonnycomputer wrote: post #48

Found lots of things rubbed me the wrong way about this post, though tbh I really haven't done Django dev; only Flask. I'll just nitpick on their bagging on Pycharm. Pycharm is great. Frankly, I like it better than VS Code; though I do grant VS Code has its strengths, especially as a lightweight capable code editor.

Pycharm gets little love, esp comapred to the free alternative, VS code.

I actually like, use, and pay for PyCharm, but it annoys me when JB chase new (ds) customers with DataSpell, or teams management stuff with "Space", When long standing, trivial Pycharm bugs have gone unfixed for years; https://youtrack.jetbrains.com/issue/PY-14743 [0]. I have no hope Pycharm will innovate any time soon, and will eventually fall behind more motivated IDEs.

Also, the whole "IDE specific to one language/domain" thing is a little Janky when, IDEA with plugins vs the "specialised" IDEs can differ so much. I feel JB are trying to build a single code base to spawn multiple, separately marketed, product more than any advantage to end-users. For a while I had to keep switching from PyCharm to IDEA just for Jenkinsfile support..

[0] more context: https://stackoverflow.com/questions/27475432/pycharm-docstri...

Re: The Decline of Django

#62

Post by SaltyBackendGuy »

mtberatwork wrote: post #44

Eh, "[insert stable, mature MVC framework] is dying/dead/etc" articles are a dime a dozen on the Web. I suppose it could be considered a badge of honor for a framework to have some internet punter declare the framework as "dead". But, just to nitpick... > Bad Official Admin GUI UX For anyone reading, Django's admin tool is designed for situations in which you need to stand up a quick admin or build some internal admi…

> Bad Official Admin GUI UX

As bad as it is, it enabled our team of all backend devs to stand up a functioning infrastructure management tool that was mission critical to the business's success in the early stages, for relatively low effort.

I guess it just depends on what you're using the tool for.

Re: The Decline of Django

#63

Post by Mikeb85 »

recursivedoubts wrote: post #56

some decline: https://insights.stackoverflow.com/trends?tags=django Would django benefit from a marketing refresh? Of course. Unfortunately, unlike rails, it isn't a passion project for an independently wealthy person. At the risk of self-promotion, htmx is making all of these excellent, mature server side frameworks relevant again. They are very good at producing hypermedia and, if you don't try to turn them into du…

Not sure I'd call Rails an independently wealthy person's 'passion project'. He's wealthy because of his startup, which Rails came from. Rails development happens because Basecamp makes things with it...

Re: The Decline of Django

#64

Post by innocentoldguy »

mickjagger wrote: post #2

What’s better?

Here’s my subjective suggestion and a list of things I like about it in no particular order:

As someone who has used Django, Rails, and Node, I’d recommend Elixir and Phoenix. Elixir has excellent tooling and dependency management, is functional and therefore easier to write concurrent applications with, it stores threads in private memory and uses the actor model for interprocess communications, and since it is truly concurrent, it is much more scalable than the other options I just mentioned.

Phoenix is a flexible, clean, and easy to use framework with very little, if any, magic. LiveView lets you create things like SPAs, without the use of a front-end JS framework, using standard message passing. Phoenix is also scalable as hell.

One of my favorite things about Elixir and Phoenix is the ability to handle issues in a very atomic way. If you compare an Elixir cluster with a Kubernetes cluster, Elixir is able to handle an issue with tweezers where Kubernetes would handle the same issue with a bulldozer.

Re: The Decline of Django

#65

Post by julienpalard »

mtberatwork wrote: post #44

Eh, "[insert stable, mature MVC framework] is dying/dead/etc" articles are a dime a dozen on the Web. I suppose it could be considered a badge of honor for a framework to have some internet punter declare the framework as "dead". But, just to nitpick... > Bad Official Admin GUI UX For anyone reading, Django's admin tool is designed for situations in which you need to stand up a quick admin or build some internal admi…

Django fan here, but honest question: is there a Flask admin at least as good as Django admin?

Re: The Decline of Django

#66

Post by satya71 »

mtberatwork wrote: post #44

Eh, "[insert stable, mature MVC framework] is dying/dead/etc" articles are a dime a dozen on the Web. I suppose it could be considered a badge of honor for a framework to have some internet punter declare the framework as "dead". But, just to nitpick... > Bad Official Admin GUI UX For anyone reading, Django's admin tool is designed for situations in which you need to stand up a quick admin or build some internal admi…

There are entire companies whose business model is to give you an admin panel. You get that for free with Django.

Re: The Decline of Django

#67

Post by nicolaslem »

> If you're a 22 years old student, you probably never used and will never use IRC.

It seems that the author does not realize that filtering out 22 years old students may be a feature, not a bug. If you need to be convinced just look at the dev mailing list before Google summer of code, lots of low effort proposals borderline on spam. I cannot blame maintainers for trying to shield themselves from some users.

An advice from someone who was a 22 years old student not so long ago? Learn to use IRC, it's awesome!

Re: The Decline of Django

#68

Post by smoe »

Chris2048 wrote: post #51
smoe wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would go FastAPI for new projects. Either is good if what you are building is something small and very focused or if you already know exactly what you want to build and want to have freedom making decisions about most aspects of the application. But if you don't know yet what the product will be, a battery included framework like Django is very nice to get out the door quickly without having to worry too much how to…

To be fair, I'm familiar with Flask and (some) of its complimentary modules. FastAPI has a lot of buzz right now, but it's also fairly new - I'll probably experiment with it first. Also, I think that Django is a good choice over Flask if you've never done anything in flask. But if you have an existing Flask site that can serve as a skeleton, I think it's just as good as Django as a starting point; details such as cod…

I agree. Maybe a was bit unclear. I think the nice thing about micro frameworks like Flask is that you can build your own Django. Or your own whatever it is you need.

But you need to spent at least once quite significant time following mega-tutorials, thinking about how to structure your application, what libraries to use for x, how to integrate them etc.

If you do that, it's great. But what I have seen in practice in various large flask app developed over years is, that in the very beginning people just jump in hacking away because it is so simple, just an app.py and a requirements.txt. Then over time they slap on the same thing Django has, but in a much less robust, hard to maintainable way. I'm guilty of the same, often simply not having time due to reality to really think things trough (the mega tutorial and similar didn't exist when I last started a Flask app).

Re: The Decline of Django

#69

Post by aogaili »

mtberatwork wrote: post #44

Eh, "[insert stable, mature MVC framework] is dying/dead/etc" articles are a dime a dozen on the Web. I suppose it could be considered a badge of honor for a framework to have some internet punter declare the framework as "dead". But, just to nitpick... > Bad Official Admin GUI UX For anyone reading, Django's admin tool is designed for situations in which you need to stand up a quick admin or build some internal admi…

"Eh, "[insert stable, mature MVC framework] is dying/dead/etc" articles are a dime a dozen on the Web. I suppose it could be considered a badge of honor for a framework to have some internet punter declare the framework as "dead"."

Well said, people confuse hype, growth with death. If something is not hyped or people some folks are switching to something else then it is prematurely declared "as dead" which is a fallacy of thinking.

Re: The Decline of Django

#70

Post by est »

> But what if tomorrow, Microsoft launches a full-featured node/Typescript framework? You would get:

> all modern features and tooling Django has failed to provide over the last years

> having to master only one language as a developer.

> safety of a big corp to maintain the framework, rather than relying on individuals

Yeah that's called ASP.NET

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