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The Decline of Django

david-dahan.com

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Re: The Decline of Django

#51

Post by Chris2048 »

smoe wrote: post #31
Chris2048 wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Flask? Maybe FastAPI.

Would go FastAPI for new projects. Either is good if what you are building is something small and very focused or if you already know exactly what you want to build and want to have freedom making decisions about most aspects of the application. But if you don't know yet what the product will be, a battery included framework like Django is very nice to get out the door quickly without having to worry too much how to…

To be fair, I'm familiar with Flask and (some) of its complimentary modules. FastAPI has a lot of buzz right now, but it's also fairly new - I'll probably experiment with it first.

Also, I think that Django is a good choice over Flask if you've never done anything in flask. But if you have an existing Flask site that can serve as a skeleton, I think it's just as good as Django as a starting point; details such as code structure and common library choice is then already handles - in fact just following https://blog.miguelgrinberg.com/post/the-flask-mega-tutorial... will get you a lot of this too; Do you have any other batteries in mind? Ialso see Django having plenty "gotchas" (although it maybe have changed since I last used it). I definitely much prefer SQLAlchemy over DjangoORM.

Re: The Decline of Django

#52

Post by hairofadog »

jmstfv wrote: post #20
mickjagger wrote: post #2

What’s better?

Rails. Switched from Django two years ago and never looked back. Having worked with both, Rails is more polished and pleasant to work with. Side note: if you're building a business and already know Python/Django, stick with them!

I just wanted to provide an alternate viewpoint; I also switched from Django to Rails, but much preferred Django. In my opinion the documentation is much better (the Rails documentation sites drive me bananas daily for both reasons of their content and UIs) and I very much appreciate the slow pace of changes to the framework.

I’m not disagreeing with you at all (as you’re expressing your valid opinion!) but wanted to leave a note to say Django is still great and still preferred for many of us. I also agree with you that it’s probably not worth switching if you’re already on one framework or the other; they both have their strengths and good communities.

Re: The Decline of Django

#54

Post by Chris2048 »

rmoriz wrote: post #40
InsaneOstrich wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I swear I saw an article on here a few months ago about the decline of Rails

Someone needs to coin the term "mansion-shedding": Bikeshedding, but it's about the choice between two or more proven, reliable, working solutions.

I'd argue it's not the same thing. Bike-shedding happens over trivial, subjective things where any opinion is as valid, and hard to rebuke because of the subjectivity.

When it comes to arguing over large projects, the difficulty to rebuke comes not from subjectivity, or trivial-ism, but from the project being so complex there are few with the context/experience who can properly compare the two.

Re: The Decline of Django

#55

Post by grey-area »

jstx1 wrote: post #42
mickjagger wrote: post #2

What’s better?

Does Go fit here?

If you're trying to write an api, yes absolutely it is more suitable.

If you're trying to write a CRUD app with a lot of admin screens, no, unless you're happy to roll your own auth, admin screens, mailer etc. (I use Go for building web apps like this and am very happy with it, but it's definitely more work thank something like Django or Rails).

Re: The Decline of Django

#56

Post by recursivedoubts »

some decline:

https://insights.stackoverflow.com/trends?tags=django

Would django benefit from a marketing refresh? Of course. Unfortunately, unlike rails, it isn't a passion project for an independently wealthy person.

At the risk of self-promotion, htmx is making all of these excellent, mature server side frameworks relevant again. They are very good at producing hypermedia and, if you don't try to turn them into dumb JSON data terminals, they can be extremely productive and produce wonderful applications.

Re: The Decline of Django

#57

Post by arkh »

mtberatwork wrote: post #44

Eh, "[insert stable, mature MVC framework] is dying/dead/etc" articles are a dime a dozen on the Web. I suppose it could be considered a badge of honor for a framework to have some internet punter declare the framework as "dead". But, just to nitpick... > Bad Official Admin GUI UX For anyone reading, Django's admin tool is designed for situations in which you need to stand up a quick admin or build some internal admi…

> in my opinion I have yet to see any project have better documentation than Django

I'm partial to Symfony. Good "getting started", per component documentation and links to cookbook-style articles for things people tend to want to do.

Re: The Decline of Django

#59

Post by grenoire »

dc-programmer wrote: post #47
TameAntelope wrote: post #39

1) Documentation is too verbose 2) Onboarding new developers lacks IDE specific tooling for free 3) Admin GUI isn't great 4) Async support is still incomplete 5) Static types aren't used in Django 6) Django is MVC which isn't useful if you just need a light V 7) People ignore other, newer tech because Django exists What??? 4 and 5 are legit complaints, the rest is literally the nittiest of picks, in my opinion. You d…

Number 1 isn’t a show stopper in any way but is it pretty annoying. The primary django docs are very textual and place more emphasis on developing intuition and understanding context, than something that can be quickly referenced. Also a lot of the method parameters are either not documented or not explained. I think Django would benefit from a more technical and complete but less dense secondary reference.

I fully agree, it usually ends up being barely useful, and not enough. It does not explain how certain parts of the magic happen, what the best practices are, what the expected types for arguments may be, etc.

It's not bad, but usually verbose in the wrong bits, and sparse in the details.

Re: The Decline of Django

#60

Post by jgwil2 »

arkh wrote: post #57
mtberatwork wrote: post #44

Eh, "[insert stable, mature MVC framework] is dying/dead/etc" articles are a dime a dozen on the Web. I suppose it could be considered a badge of honor for a framework to have some internet punter declare the framework as "dead". But, just to nitpick... > Bad Official Admin GUI UX For anyone reading, Django's admin tool is designed for situations in which you need to stand up a quick admin or build some internal admi…

> in my opinion I have yet to see any project have better documentation than Django I'm partial to Symfony. Good "getting started", per component documentation and links to cookbook-style articles for things people tend to want to do.

Symfony is a great project, I just feel like, in comparing it to Django, there are so few people who would choose PHP over Python that it's not really a fair fight.
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