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Nomad vs. Kubernetes

nomadproject.io

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Re: Nomad vs. Kubernetes

#41

Post by heinrichhartman »

jnsaff2 wrote: post #34

I liked Mesos when I worked on it, and it's been replaced by more modern tools like Nomad, but every time I have to work on k8s it's .. well it's being promoted like a cult, has a cult following and I think the whole thing is set up to suck up complexity and layering. How do you deploy a thing to run on k8s? One would think you deploy a manifest to it and that's it. Like yaml or json or hcl or whatever. No. The built…

> How do you deploy a thing to run on k8s?

    kubectrl apply -f deploy.yaml
should work, no? What forces you to use the sugar-coating?

Re: Nomad vs. Kubernetes

#42

Post by jjeaff »

jnsaff2 wrote: post #34

I liked Mesos when I worked on it, and it's been replaced by more modern tools like Nomad, but every time I have to work on k8s it's .. well it's being promoted like a cult, has a cult following and I think the whole thing is set up to suck up complexity and layering. How do you deploy a thing to run on k8s? One would think you deploy a manifest to it and that's it. Like yaml or json or hcl or whatever. No. The built…

You don't need any of that stuff. When I started with k8s, all I used were Yaml manifest files and kubectl apply.

As I started using it more, i eventually moved up to using helm. I've been running production k8s for a few years now and haven't used helmsman or anything but helm yet.

Re: Nomad vs. Kubernetes

#43

Post by q3k »

jnsaff2 wrote: post #34

I liked Mesos when I worked on it, and it's been replaced by more modern tools like Nomad, but every time I have to work on k8s it's .. well it's being promoted like a cult, has a cult following and I think the whole thing is set up to suck up complexity and layering. How do you deploy a thing to run on k8s? One would think you deploy a manifest to it and that's it. Like yaml or json or hcl or whatever. No. The built…

> How do you deploy a thing to run on k8s?

kubectl apply -f ~/git/infra/secretproject/prod.{json,yaml}

One JSON/YAML file too uwieldy? Generate it using jsonnet/CUE/dhall/your favourite programming language. Or just talk directly to the Kubernetes API. You don't have to use Helm - in fact, you probably shouldn't be using Helm (as the whole idea of text templating YAML is... thoroughly ignorant in understanding what Kubernetes actually is).

> Layer a service mesh with custom overlay networking that abstract upon k8s clusterip.

You don't have to, and you probably don't need to. I'm happily running bare metal k8s production without anything more than Calico, Metallb and nginx-ingress-controller. That effectively gives me 'standard Kubernetes networking' ie. working Services and Ingresses which is plenty enough. And if you're using a cluster deployed by a cloud provider, you don't have to worry about any of this, all the hard decisions are made and the components are deployed and working.

Re: Nomad vs. Kubernetes

#44

Post by thefounder »

jnsaff2 wrote: post #34

I liked Mesos when I worked on it, and it's been replaced by more modern tools like Nomad, but every time I have to work on k8s it's .. well it's being promoted like a cult, has a cult following and I think the whole thing is set up to suck up complexity and layering. How do you deploy a thing to run on k8s? One would think you deploy a manifest to it and that's it. Like yaml or json or hcl or whatever. No. The built…

>> jeesh. why?

If you look at Google they build a whole PaaS (Cloud Run/Appengine) on top of k8 and I guess that's the way it's meant to be used.

IaaS -> K8 -> PaaS -> deploy.sh

Re: Nomad vs. Kubernetes

#45

Post by clvx »

jnsaff2 wrote: post #34

I liked Mesos when I worked on it, and it's been replaced by more modern tools like Nomad, but every time I have to work on k8s it's .. well it's being promoted like a cult, has a cult following and I think the whole thing is set up to suck up complexity and layering. How do you deploy a thing to run on k8s? One would think you deploy a manifest to it and that's it. Like yaml or json or hcl or whatever. No. The built…

The worst part of k8s is definitely its configuration system. I don’t like helm as it’s combining packaging, templating and deployment lifecycle. I feel like each of this components should’ve been its own abstraction.

Re: Nomad vs. Kubernetes

#46

Post by wg0 »

Fiahil wrote: post #25

> Kubernetes is an orchestration system for containers Yes, but No. Kubernetes is a portability platform, that happen to -also- orchestrate containers. Using kubernetes means you have complete reproducibility of the network setup, the deployment and the operation of any workload -no matter how complex-, on any kubernenetes cluster and cloud provider. Nomad, is -well- just a glorified Airflow.

Kubernetes is the new POSIX. It is complex for sure. But yes, portability is what matters. No vendor lock-in as long as you've abstracted your workloads to Kubernetes.

Re: Nomad vs. Kubernetes

#47

Post by vegai_ »

Nomad could use an official or semi-official distribution. Something that you could throw into any VM with minimal configuration and it would create a new or join an existing nomad cluster.

I've been thinking about building such a thing on Arch (btw) but haven't acquired enough time-energy to do it.

Re: Nomad vs. Kubernetes

#48

Post by Fiahil »

capableweb wrote: post #29
Fiahil wrote: post #25

> Kubernetes is an orchestration system for containers Yes, but No. Kubernetes is a portability platform, that happen to -also- orchestrate containers. Using kubernetes means you have complete reproducibility of the network setup, the deployment and the operation of any workload -no matter how complex-, on any kubernenetes cluster and cloud provider. Nomad, is -well- just a glorified Airflow.

Nomad, just like Unix, prefers composition of simple tools in favor of one-big-tool-for-everything that Kubernetes is going for. So for achieving those things, you'd use Terraform or something similar, and then you have a reproducible environment for the hardware/software setup outside of Nomad. > Yes, but No. Kubernetes is a portability platform, that happen to -also- orchestrate containers. The homepage of Kubernet…

> The homepage of Kubernetes seems to disagree with you.

People have trouble understanding what k8s is, and what to use it for. That's fine, it'll take a while, but they will eventually understand what "Production-Grade Container Orchestration" really means when they start working with it.

Re: Nomad vs. Kubernetes

#49

Post by francis-io »

As much as i think k8s is the most complex option that exists, which is bad, its being pushed by the big boys, which means tools exist for it.

I can get so much value by plugging in other tools to this generic platform. Feature flags? just plug it in. On cluster builds? Just plug it in. Monitoring? Plug it in.

Re: Nomad vs. Kubernetes

#50

Post by proxysna »

creshal wrote: post #39
proxysna wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nomad will still get you where you need to be. Aside from vm live migration i am yet to find a good example of a workload where nomad is straight up is unable to do what you need.

What do you even still use VMs for?

Anything that needs a kernel module (OpenVPN with tap for example) is better off as a separate VM. Or anything that is not linux, so BSD, Illumos etc.

Also I am using Nomad over baremetal to create VM's with Nomad clients onboard. Kind of a messy setup, but works really well for me.

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