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Governor vows criminal prosecution of reporter who found flaw in state website

missouriindependent.com

611–620 of 705 posts

Re: Governor vows criminal prosecution of reporter who found flaw in state website

#611

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The closest real-life equivalent to asking a computer server for a document and getting it is asking a human server (e.g. office clerk, archivist) for a document and getting it. If I go to the IRS to do some paperwork and notice it says "File #7881991" in the top right corner and I go to the clerk and ask them "Hey, can I have files 7881992 and 7881993, too?" and they give them to me , who is liable for that? It's qu…

Users don't normally construct urls by hand. Wouldn't the equivalent more be like: You filled out some form to request a document from the irs. You give the form to the person they give you the document. You notice they dont check ids, so you change the name on the form, and get someone else's document. This definitely seems to fit the definition of fraud: 380 (1) Every one who, by deceit, falsehood or other fraudule…

> Users don't normally construct urls by hand

You never typed google.com into the browser? I doubt it. Maybe you just mean "construct" as in edit the url to access another site - well, that's still a perfectly normal use-case. I regularly change reddit urls to old.reddit because it gives me a better user interface. Or access a subreddit by adding an "r/subname". Sure, those aren't alphanumeric IDs, but that distinction is meaningless. Some unique IDs on the web do actually consist exclusively of english words. And some numeric IDs are harmless page numbers or pagination info.

Re: Governor vows criminal prosecution of reporter who found flaw in state website

#612

After the Affordable Care Act went into effect I signed our company up for our state's marketplace. While browsing our plan options, I noticed the url used a scheme like marketplace.org/employers/341/plans.aspx. Of course, I tried changing the number in the url to 342 to see what happened. To my astonishment, it loaded up the next company's plans, including a list of employee names, ages, plan cost, and SSNs. After I…

Unfortunately, this is the top comment and it has led to a lengthy discussion about the ethics of altering a url to retrieve a resource you should not have access to. Which is a fascinating discussion, but has nothing to do with the case at hand which is where the underlying html on a publicly accessible search result page contained SSNs of the teachers returned in the search. All the analogies about ‘it’s like askin…

Yes, it looks like it was built to search educator SSNs[1], so the devs just... put them all in the js. How's that for caching? Ouch.

1: https://web.archive.org/web/20210428154433/https://apps.dese...

Re: Governor vows criminal prosecution of reporter who found flaw in state website

#613
What's the right analogy for this, graspable by the techo-illiterate?

Maybe like, the state mails letters out, and a reporter realizes that if you slit the envelope open, you can see that sensitive information was accidentally printed inside?

Re: Governor vows criminal prosecution of reporter who found flaw in state website

#614

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately, this is the top comment and it has led to a lengthy discussion about the ethics of altering a url to retrieve a resource you should not have access to. Which is a fascinating discussion, but has nothing to do with the case at hand which is where the underlying html on a publicly accessible search result page contained SSNs of the teachers returned in the search. All the analogies about ‘it’s like askin…

URLs are not secrets. End of discussion.

End of a different discussion than the one this news article warrants.

Re: Governor vows criminal prosecution of reporter who found flaw in state website

#615
People in power seem to confuse actual security designed to prevent unauthorized access with security by obscurity, and are shockingly willing to believe that calling a system secure makes it so.

Remember when the state of Florida labelled an epidemiologist, who they had previously fired for not cooking the books on covid cases to make the state look less bad, a "hacker" because she sent email to a state-run mailing list? https://www.tampabay.com/news/health/2020/12/07/florida-poli...

The mailing list was claimed to be "secure", but there was nothing secure about it. Other than the fact that merely by convention only certain people were supposed to know about it and use it, it was completely unsecured.

Re: Governor vows criminal prosecution of reporter who found flaw in state website

#616

I commented days ago about a state website that was returning all kinds of nicely formatted NPI in JSON from an API response, but the NPI was not displayed. I donned my black hat and other hacker attire and pressed F12 to open the browser's developers tools (a tool created by a shifty company named Google most people have never heard of), and there it was, plain as day, SSNs, addresses, etc. I closed the page and nev…

At least make a throwaway email account somewhere and email the state's IT department to let them know. I doubt it'd ever get fixed (given state budgets), but still.

Other comments are talking about how Missouri will spend millions investigating this "hack". I don't know how to reliable mask my identity against a million dollars worth of criminal investigators.

This was many years ago, a few years after it first happened I looked again and it had been fixed.

Re: Governor vows criminal prosecution of reporter who found flaw in state website

#617

After the Affordable Care Act went into effect I signed our company up for our state's marketplace. While browsing our plan options, I noticed the url used a scheme like marketplace.org/employers/341/plans.aspx. Of course, I tried changing the number in the url to 342 to see what happened. To my astonishment, it loaded up the next company's plans, including a list of employee names, ages, plan cost, and SSNs. After I…

I dunno, this seems pretty normal. Just today news broke that in Germany some guy who found a flaw in a web-shop backend leaking the data of hundreds of thousands of people got raided, because the operator reported him to the police - and somehow both police and state attorney found it wise to prosecute him instead of referring the case to the GDPR officer to fine the operator. It's pretty obvious that when you find…

I think B would be blackmail?

Re: Governor vows criminal prosecution of reporter who found flaw in state website

#618
post #352

Quote from the St Louis Post Dispatch article is even more groan-worthy: "In the letter to teachers, Education Commissioner Margie Vandeven said “an individual took the records of at least three educators, unencrypted the source code from the webpage, and viewed the social security number (SSN) of those specific educators.” I guess webpages are kinda like encryption for idiots.

We live in a world where everyone thinks they understand computers and have an expectation of security and privacy, but they don't realize how hard it is to build these systems correctly. The best security appears to be invisible to the consumer, but requires a lot of thought by the implementer. This is the same reason why I think most of the general public don't understand how much data social media apps can collect…

> but they don't realize how hard it is to build these systems correctly.

In this case, it sounds like the SSNs were included in their entirety in the HTML. My first response is that its a stupid and obvious mistake, but I think it might be too suspiciously easy to only blame the developers here.

I think we have a larger problem - which is that there's a hidden cost to adding extra layers of magic to software. And on the web, we seem to just not be able to help ourselves. The cost is that developers often skip actually understanding how the new layers work. And the abstractions are leaky with respect to performance and security, and sometimes functionality.

Its easy to imagine how this bug slipped through. They had a database query which fetched the data for rendering. Then they used some "magic" framework which does server side rendering & hydration. So the server sent the JSON it used to render to the client to dehydrate the page, and that JSON happened to include the raw database rows (with SSNs). The system is magic enough so you don't have to understand how that process works; but not magic enough to protect you from the consequences.

Junior devs use the magic anyway and get stuck, or make mistakes like this. Senior devs feel like we have to learn everything and get overwhelmed.

Other examples of this:

- Recently I wanted to use some rust code (compiled to wasm via wasm-pack) in a svelte project with snowpack or rollup. I know how to include wasm in a webpage, but the bundlers needed special plugins to handle this. And the plugins for wasm are halfbaked, poorly maintained and janky.

- I worked with a team a few years ago who was using some graphql wrapper around contentful. (Before contentful had an official graphql endpoint). The wrapper was very good, but we needed to run some queries that weren't supported by the wrapper. This was close to impossible. Nobody on the team was strong enough to read the graphql code to figure out how to solve our problem. I did it eventually - via some custom endpoints. But I shouldn't have. After I left the team had no idea how to maintain or modify the code I wrote, and they were entirely stuck.

- The "web obesity crisis" comes from projects pulling giant amounts of javascript into their webpages. Our tooling makes this easy (npm install) and safe (incompatible versions of the same package are included separately). So its easy to end up with libraries like web3, which include about a dozen different versions of bn.js resulting in 2.3mb of uncompressed JS which takes nearly a second to parse on a modern computer. - [1] https://github.com/ChainSafe/web3.js/issues/1178

I don't know what the answer here is, but I know when I was writing qbasic as a kid it wasn't like this. Maybe we need to stop going "up the stack", and instead go sideways - throwing things out as we add more. I worry this whole problem will get much worse before it gets any better.

Re: Governor vows criminal prosecution of reporter who found flaw in state website

#619

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It wasn't just plan details though... They accessed names, SSNs, etc.

Not on purpose, and they didn't keep or memorize it.

The GP comment says "After I shopped a few other companies to see how our plans compared". That sounds pretty "on purpose" to me.

What does "keep or memorize" have to do with anything? They intentionally abused a misconfiguration to view private information.

I think it's reasonable to disagree about the ethics of that, but I don't think it's really debatable that it was intentional.

Re: Governor vows criminal prosecution of reporter who found flaw in state website

#620

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately, this is the top comment and it has led to a lengthy discussion about the ethics of altering a url to retrieve a resource you should not have access to. Which is a fascinating discussion, but has nothing to do with the case at hand which is where the underlying html on a publicly accessible search result page contained SSNs of the teachers returned in the search. All the analogies about ‘it’s like askin…

I am now questioning the wisdom of having shared this story, and I apologize for derailing the discussion.

Yours is an interesting story. And very relevant. It just isn’t applicable to one interesting aspect of the article being discussed which is that the sensitive data was sent to every user but was “hidden” by html.

But the shoot the messenger aspect of reporting vulnerabilities is also very relevant. It’s just the nature of forums like this that some things bubble up to the top and dominate the discussion. Hard to say it’s your fault for retelling a story.

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