Live data from Hacker News

Former Boeing 737 Max Chief Technical Pilot Indicted for Fraud

justice.gov

11–20 of 367 posts

Re: Former Boeing 737 Max Chief Technical Pilot Indicted for Fraud

#11
Boeing were idiots selling this new model into the markets they did right out the gate. It was greed and bit them hard.

Poor maintenance. Pilot skills in hand flying and unusual flying and recovery so different (overseas they don't always come through a normal US style GA background).

If they would have looked more closely at the US, they would have found that this system was triggered (and resolved) I suspect pretty frequently by US pilots - ie, the pilots in the loop compensated for the design weaknesses which was the boeing thinking historically. US pilots have played that role on many planes, usually mfg then fixes the issues as well.

If they are going to continue to sell internationally in the markets they want to they actually need to think about doing more automation and flight protection stuff - more computers - not less.

This may never have been the major issue it became if they had focused on a major carrier like Southwest (very experienced crews).

The whole MCAS thing was garbage, interesting they are pinning it on this guy. He does say internally he lied to FAA (unknowingly) as they weren't fully familiar with MCAS modes and edge

Edit: Appears I was wrong - good maintenance in US seems to have been key saving thing.

"Following the recent events in Indonesia and Ethiopia, U.S. flight data was analyzed to understand whether indicators may have existed that could have been addressed, and potentially preempted the accidents. The data showed zero incidents of runaway trim on Boeing 737 MAX 8 aircraft in the U.S. system,” says the report from the special committee.

Good job A&P folks!

Re: Former Boeing 737 Max Chief Technical Pilot Indicted for Fraud

#12
post #8

Well let's hope that some C-Suite got punished.

Why? He was lying to them as well.

> Steve Jobs told employees a short story when they were promoted to vice president at Apple. Jobs would tell the VP that if the garbage in his office was not being emptied, Jobs would naturally demand an explanation from the janitor. "Well, the lock on the door was changed,' the janitor could reasonably respond. "And I couldn't get a key."

> The janitor's response is reasonable. It's an understandable excuse. The janitor can't do his job without a key. As a janitor, he's allowed to have excuses.

> "When you're the janitor, reasons matter," Jobs told his newly-minted VPs. "Somewhere between the janitor and the CEO, reasons stop mattering."

> "In other words," (Jobs continued,) "when the employee becomes a vice president, he or she must vacate all excuses for failure. A vice president is responsible for any mistakes that happen, and it doesn't matter what you say."

Re: Former Boeing 737 Max Chief Technical Pilot Indicted for Fraud

#13
post #5

I'm sure this guy knew what he was doing - but yes, he was probably coerced or induced by someone with more authority. There's no way the buck stops there.

well some C-level staff eventually has to take some responsibility, can't keep passing the buck.

Re: Former Boeing 737 Max Chief Technical Pilot Indicted for Fraud

#14
Here are the HN threads from both crashes:

Oct 2018: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18324997

March 2019: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19351835

May be interesting to read with the benefit of hindsight and everything we've learned about the process that lead to those crashes.

Re: Former Boeing 737 Max Chief Technical Pilot Indicted for Fraud

#15
post #7
post #5

I'm sure this guy knew what he was doing - but yes, he was probably coerced or induced by someone with more authority. There's no way the buck stops there.

This guy’s name popped up in the Seattle Times article from almost Day 1 of the MCAS debacle. IIRC he left Boeing and went to Southwest, and proceeded to lie to them about the Max. To the extent there was a single person concealing information, it was him.

I guess him leaving explains why he's the only one to get the blame. Had he remained in the company, he could have blackmailed his way out, by threatening to bring down the whole club. By leaving, he painted a huge target on his back.

Re: Former Boeing 737 Max Chief Technical Pilot Indicted for Fraud

#16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The C-suite will be punished with a bonus for dodging responsibility. edit: if that actually happens, Boeing is finished. They will be doomed to repeating the mistake of the 737 Max.

> They will be doomed to repeating the mistake of the 737 Max. This article is about the 737 Max.

Yes?

They’re saying that if there aren’t significant consequences for the C suite in this case, they’ll pick cost over safety again in the future.

Re: Former Boeing 737 Max Chief Technical Pilot Indicted for Fraud

#18
Nailed for being the only guy stupid enough to write instant messages bragging about misleading the FAA.

As a longtime corporate grunt, I can guess exactly how management leaned on him. He should have left and let the scumbags find another patsy to do their dirty work.

Re: Former Boeing 737 Max Chief Technical Pilot Indicted for Fraud

#19
post #5

I'm sure this guy knew what he was doing - but yes, he was probably coerced or induced by someone with more authority. There's no way the buck stops there.

well some C-level staff eventually has to take some responsibility, can't keep passing the buck.

some C-level staff eventually has to take some responsibility

That may be optimistic. Off the top of my head I can't remember any c-level execs of such a massive corporation having criminal charges brought against them. (except maybe for some type of tax/securities fraud) There's probably... some? My knowledge of the area certainly isn't comprehensive.

Re: Former Boeing 737 Max Chief Technical Pilot Indicted for Fraud

#20
post #15
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This guy’s name popped up in the Seattle Times article from almost Day 1 of the MCAS debacle. IIRC he left Boeing and went to Southwest, and proceeded to lie to them about the Max. To the extent there was a single person concealing information, it was him.

I guess him leaving explains why he's the only one to get the blame. Had he remained in the company, he could have blackmailed his way out, by threatening to bring down the whole club. By leaving, he painted a huge target on his back.

> Had he remained in the company, he could have blackmailed his way out, by threatening to bring down the whole club.

What? No. That’s not how it works unless your goal is a superseding indictment with additional charges.

Post reply on HN