Nice, I have seen this tech ~25 years ago when I was a little boy and always wondered why it never came to market. I think they were called tweels back when I saw them.
Michelin Airless
271–280 of 316 posts
Re: Michelin Airless
#272Earlier quoted context omitted.
Don't get me wrong - I'd expect Michelin to have done some testing to see NVH is within tolerance levels right? Airless is really close to working for bikes. If I were commuting on a bike now I'd be comfortable going for it. The downsides - painfully hard installation, uphill resistance, ...etc. - will be worth it.
I also want to add, since this is more of a deep auto-industry thing, that NVH testing is almost like longitudinal health studies. NVH engineers actually have charts of which specific frequencies our internal organs resonate at . For a layperson it's easy to imagine that NVH testing is just a matter of setting up a dB meter and some accelerometers to make sure things aren't bouncing around too much, but it's actually…
Thanks for this. Is there a way to look up NVH values for current tires? I'm assuming some have better NVH values than others and they could have an effect on making the drive feel nicer.
Re: Michelin Airless
#273I don't worry about punctures at all, despite living in a country with a shitty roads. What I worry about A LOT is a catastrophic collision of tire with a 90 degree sharp pothole edge, often made by roadworkers before doing point repair, which potentially can destroy tire irreparably. I wonder if these tires are better protected against such impacts, and just looking at them it seems they are - no side walls which ar…
Additionally, tires filled with air can be dangerous over or under filling them. Filling tires at too high pressure can lead to blowouts. Filling tires under pressure leads to degraded performance handling issues potentially causing accidents in some cases. A more consistent normalized baseline performing tire, even if louder, would be welcome. This would end the seasonal low pressure tires in winter due to the cold…
> A more consistent normalized baseline performing tire, even if louder, would be welcome.
Background noise can lead to fatigue, which can lead to crashes. I have no idea of the overall impact (pardon the pun) of this, compared to increased safety of (louder) tyre performance, but probably worth considering.
> Managing air pressure in tires can be problematic, airless tires are a welcome innovation.
True, but modern cars have inbuilt pressure sensors, and these can be retro-fitted relatively cheaply.
Re: Michelin Airless
#274How much more do they weigh than standard tires? I expect the extra material required might end up negating any "environmental benefit" which comes from reduced scrapping of tires due to punctures/etc.
Re: Michelin Airless
#275Earlier quoted context omitted.
I don't think that's true anymore. For example, the Tesla Model 3 weighs anywhere from 3,552-4,072lbs depending on the trim level.[1] (The heaviest is the Model 3 Performance which has the biggest battery, motors, and wheels.) The BMW 3 series is 3,582-4,138lbs depending on the exact model and trim.[2] Gas cars don't have big heavy batteries but they do have big heavy engine blocks and more complicated (heavier) driv…
BMW is a particularly heavy sedan. The Honda Civic is 2877 to 3126. Even the Golf R which has a rear diff, DCT, and a 2.0 turbo is only 3100 pounds.
And an e-Golf weighs 3455lbs. Which - sure, is 10% heavier than a Golf R. But then so, apparently, is a heavy Civic compared to a light one.
Re: Michelin Airless
#276Former automotive engineer chiming in. "Tweels" have been around a long time, but have always failed in terms of "NVH" (noise, vibration, harshness). Michelin is claiming that this generation of tweels are appropriate for passenger cars, which means that they think they've solved the NVH problem. They seem to be marketing these alongside EVs, I wonder if they're only really intended for lighter, compact-style cars. (…
I understood this was a tough problem to solve when I swapped my hard-to-inflate scooter tires with some cheap tweels. NVH, even at 15MPH, is real.
For anyone wanting to do this to their electric scooters, dont... until Michelin makes a scooter form-factor wheel I suppose.
Re: Michelin Airless
#277Earlier quoted context omitted.
Where are you getting those figures? When I look up the stats for the 2021 Accord I see weights ranging from 3,150-3,446lbs.[1] Really though, the Civic and Accord aren't competing with the Model 3. They're front wheel drive. They have less power and torque. They use struts for the front suspension. All of these measures save significant weight (and cost). That's why I picked the BMW 3 series. It's similar size, perf…
And the GMC Yukon is 5500-5800 lbs, which is what I expect the original comment to be making a comparison with.
GMC Sierra, maybe, but as far as SUVs go, the Yukon/Escalade/Suburban/Tahoe are not a very popular size of SUV in the US. They're too dang expensive for most people.
The RAV4, CR-V, and Rogue are the top 3 best selling SUVs in the US so far this year. They're about half the price of a Yukon. The rest of the top 25 are almost all sedans, similarly sized midsize SUVs and pickups.
Re: Michelin Airless
#278Earlier quoted context omitted.
There’s some truth to that – remember the surveys where parents said that they could imagine driving an SUV but not a minivan if they divorced & were dating again? – but they were also subsidized. If the price of gas wasn’t artificially low, or they had to meet the same safety and pollution standards as everything else, they’d be less popular. We did at least close the Hummer tax write-off, but we should be doing mor…
It doesn't work like that anymore. 99% of the "SUVs" you see today are CUVs, which in turn are barely more than a lifted sedan. So the difference is gas milage is miniscule, to the point gas prices will no longer affect the sales of the most successful SUVs
Not sure where you live but the popular models around here are the 15mpg types and the drivers are … not driving efficiently so they're unlikely to be reaching that. You will see a few of the higher-MPG models like a RAV4 but at the end of the day it's a physics problem: all of that extra weight, non-aerodynamic design, and over-powered engine add up.
Now, it's true that someone dropping all of the extra cash for one is less price sensitive but we're still talking a pretty big difference going from mileage in the teens to the 40+mpg a decent car gets. High gas prices would get at least some people to reconsider, especially since you have to pay a fair premium as well.
Re: Michelin Airless
#279Earlier quoted context omitted.
What the hell, I've been looking for something like this for the past few months. Only ones I could find were Tannus (too soft) and Schwalbe (garbage). Don't care about weight, noise, ride quality, just need unbreakable tires because riding through neighborhoods where people break glass bottles on the bike paths will make me smash someone's head with one someday.
How about just regular Schwalbe Marathons Plus? In my experience those tyres are literally unpuncturable(at the cost of a huge weight penalty).
These are great tires, but the rolling resistance can absolutely be felt. They do suffer in grip in wet conditions as well.
Re: Michelin Airless
#280Earlier quoted context omitted.
Don't get me wrong - I'd expect Michelin to have done some testing to see NVH is within tolerance levels right? Airless is really close to working for bikes. If I were commuting on a bike now I'd be comfortable going for it. The downsides - painfully hard installation, uphill resistance, ...etc. - will be worth it.
I also want to add, since this is more of a deep auto-industry thing, that NVH testing is almost like longitudinal health studies. NVH engineers actually have charts of which specific frequencies our internal organs resonate at . For a layperson it's easy to imagine that NVH testing is just a matter of setting up a dB meter and some accelerometers to make sure things aren't bouncing around too much, but it's actually…
That certainly puts an interesting spin on the one time I had to ride the back of a bus from west coast to east coast. It was three days and I was physically and mentally exhausted at the end despite sleeping for a fair chunk of it.
Edit to add: Thanks for your input on this, it's insightful and interesting!