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On Receiving my Certificate of Loss of Nationality

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Re: On Receiving my Certificate of Loss of Nationality

#111

Post by swebs »

nicolas_t wrote: post #81
colechristensen wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But like wouldn’t you be fine once you found one?

No, even if you can open a bank account as a US citizen, most services will be restricted. If you want to get a life insurance, they won't have anything for you, if you want to open an investment account, same issue, etc... So, first it's difficult to find banks that'll even accept US citizens and then once you do, it can still be very restrictive.

I haven't run into much trouble, though maybe I just got lucky with Nordea.

Re: On Receiving my Certificate of Loss of Nationality

#112

Post by matttproud »

voisin wrote: post #16

The conversation here at this moment seems to be focused solely on whether or not it is complicated or costly to keep filing US taxes. This misses the point in that the US is the _only_ developed country to impose worldwide taxation on its citizens regardless of where they live. The only other country to do so is Eritrea and the US has routinely criticized them for doing so. Moreover, it makes expats ineligible for c…

American who‘s been abroad for a decade: I 100% agree. It introduces a lot of friction, complexity, and annoyance.

Beyond taxation, the limitations with American institutions when being domiciled abroad put you into a terrible edge-case with needing to crutch on someone stateside with an address. So much stupidity.

One addendum: while FATCA is newish and bad, the concept of taxation of Americans abroad dates back to the Civil War period. FATCA only made an existing injury worse.

Re: On Receiving my Certificate of Loss of Nationality

#113

Post by fh973 »

atourgates wrote: post #110
nicolas_t wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, even if you can open a bank account as a US citizen, most services will be restricted. If you want to get a life insurance, they won't have anything for you, if you want to open an investment account, same issue, etc... So, first it's difficult to find banks that'll even accept US citizens and then once you do, it can still be very restrictive.

Is dual citizenship any help with this issue? Say you're a dual US / German citizen. Will that help a German bank more easily bank with you? Do you even have to disclose to the bank that you're a dual citizen, or can you simply present yourself as a German citizen?

In my experience, US tax residency (as a solely German citizen) is enough for German and Swiss banks to cancel services. So dual citizenship likely won't help.

You may misrepresent your tax status towards the bank, but I'd assume that takes you on risky grounds, legally.

Re: On Receiving my Certificate of Loss of Nationality

#114

Post by digbybk »

jkfdrsak wrote: post #74
digbybk wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Citizenship is a meaningful thing to most people. Of course it's a legal fiction, but so is marriage. Personally I've never given up a citizenship, but I imagine that it'd be an emotional experience.

Marriage is voluntary and almost always necessitates an emotional element.

Based on this post, apparently citizenship is also voluntary. You might say that giving up citizenship is difficult and expensive, but you should talk to someone who has gone through a divorce.

I would also counter that citizenship also almost always necessitates an emotional element. Citizenship is a primary part of many people's identity, and identity is the most emotionally charged thing of all.

Re: On Receiving my Certificate of Loss of Nationality

#115

Post by brighton36 »

crumpled wrote: post #91
KennyBlanken wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some of her points are valid but the melodrama drawing analogies to stress from the death of a spouse, describing nearly breaking into tears every so often, and describing the consequences of her actions as something "done to her" are absurd.

This comment has a sexist smell. I wonder if the same criticism would be leveled at an identical story written by a man. Obviously, I have no idea what goes on in other peoples heads.

As does yours. Chasing Boogeymen and demons online doesn't do anyone any good. Yourself, myself, or the poster.

Re: On Receiving my Certificate of Loss of Nationality

#116

Post by nickthemagicman »

sanedigital wrote: post #42
nickthemagicman wrote: post #13

Her essentially 3 reasons for renouncing essentially and my responses: >I could vote in the US, but no one represents the needs of US citizens abroad because our votes are dispersed over all 50 states. * there's hundreds of millions of people and only two parties in the U.S. no one represents anybodies needs well >I pay almost $1000 per year to an accountant to fill out the forms—more and lengthier than they’d be if…

It’s clear from your response that you’re not at all familiar with the issues here. I’m a bit confused as to why you’d feel the need to share your opinion on a topic where you’re very clearly not well informed. As an American expat for five years, I can assure you her complaints are accurate. 1. Not remotely the same. As a resident of a particular state, your senators and congresspeople are certainly looking out for…

> It’s clear from your response that you’re not at all familiar with the issues here

Im NOT! I'm trying to understand it.

It appears that she's giving up her citizenship so she doesn't have to use a VPN and has a better selection of banks and to avoid paying $1000 a year?

Seems like a citizenship is worth WAY more than that!

Something doesn't add up here!

Or do people with a lot of money just have a lot less tolerance for inconveniences than average moneyed people?

Re: On Receiving my Certificate of Loss of Nationality

#117

Post by cr1895 »

atourgates wrote: post #110
nicolas_t wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, even if you can open a bank account as a US citizen, most services will be restricted. If you want to get a life insurance, they won't have anything for you, if you want to open an investment account, same issue, etc... So, first it's difficult to find banks that'll even accept US citizens and then once you do, it can still be very restrictive.

Is dual citizenship any help with this issue? Say you're a dual US / German citizen. Will that help a German bank more easily bank with you? Do you even have to disclose to the bank that you're a dual citizen, or can you simply present yourself as a German citizen?

Doesn’t matter, all that counts is if you are a “US Person”:

https://www.irs.gov/individuals/international-taxpayers/clas...

Whether the bank finds out or not is maybe another thing, but in principle what matters is if you count as a US Person.

Re: On Receiving my Certificate of Loss of Nationality

#118

Post by PKop »

Why is there an assumption that citizenship should extend to people living outside of a country as citizens of another country?

There's a lot of complaints here about annoying and costly taxation of "expats" but there's no discussion of why it should be valid to have citizenship but not reside in that country's borders?

What is citizenship for except to actually be a citizen? And what does that mean, living in another place and being a citizen there? Or should it mean actually contributing to the country you are a citizen of by living and working there, building the "community" you claim to be a part of? Should it not come with obligations to pay taxes to the country you are a citizen of?

I don't get the mindset that views it as some right and not a privilege that comes with responsibilities.. I think it's even perfectly valid for nations to ban dual citizenship itself.

People like the OP who produce dozens of posts documenting the supposed injustice following her own decision to move to another country are the epitome of the term "rootless cosmopolitan". What interest of a nation does it serve to cater to these people that have left for greener pastures?

Re: On Receiving my Certificate of Loss of Nationality

#119

Post by throwaway4711 »

Apart from FATCA, there is also the Expatriation Tax, introduced after Facebook cofounder Eduardo Saverin took his money out of the country by renouncing citizenship [0,1,2]. This often referred to as Exit Tax.

It also applies to Greencard holders for more then 8 years, defined as long term permanent residents.

The Exit Tax is a huge tax penalty (37%) on anyone owning more than $2 million [3].

[0] https://taxfoundation.org/outraged-facebook-expatriate-sens-...

[1] https://www.politico.com/story/2012/05/ex-patriot-act-would-...

[2] https://www.casey.senate.gov/news/releases/casey-schumer-ann...

[3] https://www.irs.gov/individuals/international-taxpayers/expa...

Re: On Receiving my Certificate of Loss of Nationality

#120

Post by Scoundreller »

xunn0026 wrote: post #80
throw63738 wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

》This misses the point in that the US is the _only_ developed country to impose worldwide taxation on its citizens regardless of where they live Not really. Norway does that for 3 years after leaving. Australia is very opinionated and may not allow people to change tax residency, even after physically moving out...

Of course, nowadays Australia won't even let people physically leave at all!

I thought leaving was easy, but returning was the complicated part.
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