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On Receiving my Certificate of Loss of Nationality

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Re: On Receiving my Certificate of Loss of Nationality

#71

Post by eterevsky »

voisin wrote: post #40
hbrav wrote: post #33

I have a question about this, that I've never been able to find a good answer to: what happens if you unilaterally renounce US citizenship? Consider the situation: you're a dual US / Dutch citizen. You want to avoid paying US income tax (or just to avoid filling in a form each year that results in the IRS telling you that your tax bill is $0 because the Netherlands' tax rate is higher). But the State Department's ren…

> you tell all your banks that you are not a US citizen and ask them to update your details accordingly. Banks abroad demand proof beyond just telling them that. You need to show the Certificate of Loss of Nationality or present a US Taxpayer Identification Number.

I've once had a pleasure of trying to convince a Swiss bank that I am neither US citizen nor resident. Fortunately it boiled down to a few phone calls and a couple of letter saying that I am really really not a US citizen, I swear.

Re: On Receiving my Certificate of Loss of Nationality

#72

Post by throw63738 »

voisin wrote: post #16

The conversation here at this moment seems to be focused solely on whether or not it is complicated or costly to keep filing US taxes. This misses the point in that the US is the _only_ developed country to impose worldwide taxation on its citizens regardless of where they live. The only other country to do so is Eritrea and the US has routinely criticized them for doing so. Moreover, it makes expats ineligible for c…

》This misses the point in that the US is the _only_ developed country to impose worldwide taxation on its citizens regardless of where they live

Not really. Norway does that for 3 years after leaving. Australia is very opinionated and may not allow people to change tax residency, even after physically moving out...

Re: On Receiving my Certificate of Loss of Nationality

#73

Post by Hamuko »

MisterBastahrd wrote: post #50

I'm amused by her complaint that overseas Americans' votes are few and far between and thus she doesn't feel represented combined with her "no taxation without representation" quip. Just because you don't belong to a group that has enough power to force the changes YOU want doesn't mean that you aren't being represented. I have no idea why any single person would expect to have a disproportionate amount of power simp…

>I have no idea why any single person would expect to have a disproportionate amount of power simply because of where they don't live.

What about the residents of Washington D.C.?

Re: On Receiving my Certificate of Loss of Nationality

#74

Post by jkfdrsak »

digbybk wrote: post #54
KennyBlanken wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some of her points are valid but the melodrama drawing analogies to stress from the death of a spouse, describing nearly breaking into tears every so often, and describing the consequences of her actions as something "done to her" are absurd.

Citizenship is a meaningful thing to most people. Of course it's a legal fiction, but so is marriage. Personally I've never given up a citizenship, but I imagine that it'd be an emotional experience.

Marriage is voluntary and almost always necessitates an emotional element.

Re: On Receiving my Certificate of Loss of Nationality

#75

Post by jaywalk »

Hamuko wrote: post #66
jaywalk wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, this blogger wasn't paying her taxes, so...

Because she didn't owe any. And yet, she had to pay thousands out of pocket to prove it to the US government that she didn't owe any taxes and they still basically monitor her like a tax dodger (because obviously all Americans abroad are dodging taxes, right?).

If I don't owe the IRS anything, I don't get to just do nothing and be alright.

Re: On Receiving my Certificate of Loss of Nationality

#76

Post by soperj »

voisin wrote: post #31
soperj wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>some negative impact on US competitiveness Negative impact on US citizen's competitiveness, which means they're less likely to get jobs outside of the US. Which means more looking for jobs domestically, leading to lower cost of labour for corporations inside the US.

Well I suppose that’s one interpretation but I think it misses the forest for the trees. Everything I’ve come across has discussed how it exacerbated trade imbalances due to a relatively lower proportion of Americans living abroad than citizens of other nationalities. Americans want to trade with Americans, like Chinese want to trade with Chinese. So having Americans abroad in bigger numbers helps for trade which I t…

Why would the multinationals that set the agenda in the US care about any of that?

Re: On Receiving my Certificate of Loss of Nationality

#77

Post by dragonwriter »

MisterBastahrd wrote: post #50

I'm amused by her complaint that overseas Americans' votes are few and far between and thus she doesn't feel represented combined with her "no taxation without representation" quip. Just because you don't belong to a group that has enough power to force the changes YOU want doesn't mean that you aren't being represented. I have no idea why any single person would expect to have a disproportionate amount of power simp…

> I have no idea why any single person would expect to have a disproportionate amount of power simply because of where they don't live.

Having disproportional political power based on residency is central to the American political system. What you probably don't understand is her particular preference as to how that disproportionality is arranged.

Re: On Receiving my Certificate of Loss of Nationality

#78

Post by throw63738 »

hbrav wrote: post #33

I have a question about this, that I've never been able to find a good answer to: what happens if you unilaterally renounce US citizenship? Consider the situation: you're a dual US / Dutch citizen. You want to avoid paying US income tax (or just to avoid filling in a form each year that results in the IRS telling you that your tax bill is $0 because the Netherlands' tax rate is higher). But the State Department's ren…

It is good business for gov, so of course it fails.

There is something similar that happens regularly.

Perhaps look at gaining citizenship at country that allows only single citizenship. It should make American citizenship null and void.

Re: On Receiving my Certificate of Loss of Nationality

#79

Post by frosted-flakes »

jaywalk wrote: post #56
jeffrallen wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You should try living as an expat before assuming her experiences are exaggerated. She is telling it like it is.

Where was it assumed her experiences were exaggerated? The point is that her experiences are the result of her own choices, not anything that was "done to" her.

It wasn't her choice for the US to require non-resident citizens to file taxes.

Re: On Receiving my Certificate of Loss of Nationality

#80

Post by xunn0026 »

throw63738 wrote: post #72
voisin wrote: post #16

The conversation here at this moment seems to be focused solely on whether or not it is complicated or costly to keep filing US taxes. This misses the point in that the US is the _only_ developed country to impose worldwide taxation on its citizens regardless of where they live. The only other country to do so is Eritrea and the US has routinely criticized them for doing so. Moreover, it makes expats ineligible for c…

》This misses the point in that the US is the _only_ developed country to impose worldwide taxation on its citizens regardless of where they live Not really. Norway does that for 3 years after leaving. Australia is very opinionated and may not allow people to change tax residency, even after physically moving out...

Of course, nowadays Australia won't even let people physically leave at all!
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