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On Receiving my Certificate of Loss of Nationality

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Re: On Receiving my Certificate of Loss of Nationality

#41

Post by Ichthypresbyter »

unhammer wrote: post #25
nickthemagicman wrote: post #13

Her essentially 3 reasons for renouncing essentially and my responses: >I could vote in the US, but no one represents the needs of US citizens abroad because our votes are dispersed over all 50 states. * there's hundreds of millions of people and only two parties in the U.S. no one represents anybodies needs well >I pay almost $1000 per year to an accountant to fill out the forms—more and lengthier than they’d be if…

If you have access to your spouse's account you may need to enter that into the FBAR form https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bank_Secrecy_Act#FBAR Regarding the difficulty of investing/borrowing outside the US: Non-US banks are required to report stuff to the US if they have US customers. So they might not want US customers because it's a hassle for them.

As a US citizen who lived in the Netherlands until recently, at least one bank (ABN AMRO) is fine with US customers, and is also attractive to expats in other ways- for instance, they will do more of their correspondence in English than other banks. It required maybe 20 minutes in an office at my local branch when I opened my account for them to have dealt with everything, and then my banking experience was no different from anyone else's.

The problem in the Netherlands isn't so much expats who grew up in the US, but "accidental Americans" who were born in the US and left as small children. They are US citizens, but don't have an SSN, which Dutch banks require to comply with US law (and with pandemic-related embassy closures, obtaining one isn't necessarily easy).

Re: On Receiving my Certificate of Loss of Nationality

#42

Post by sanedigital »

nickthemagicman wrote: post #13

Her essentially 3 reasons for renouncing essentially and my responses: >I could vote in the US, but no one represents the needs of US citizens abroad because our votes are dispersed over all 50 states. * there's hundreds of millions of people and only two parties in the U.S. no one represents anybodies needs well >I pay almost $1000 per year to an accountant to fill out the forms—more and lengthier than they’d be if…

It’s clear from your response that you’re not at all familiar with the issues here. I’m a bit confused as to why you’d feel the need to share your opinion on a topic where you’re very clearly not well informed.

As an American expat for five years, I can assure you her complaints are accurate. 1. Not remotely the same. As a resident of a particular state, your senators and congresspeople are certainly looking out for your state’s interests. As an expat, almost nobody cares. 2. FATCA doesn’t care how you file. If you’re married, your spouse is included. 3. Most investment banks will no longer accept expats as clients, and go so far as to monitor and close accounts for people consistently logging in from overseas. When we lived abroad we had to be very careful with VPNs, and often had our US-resident parents monitor our accounts for us just in case.

Re: On Receiving my Certificate of Loss of Nationality

#43

Post by voisin »

hbrav wrote: post #33

I have a question about this, that I've never been able to find a good answer to: what happens if you unilaterally renounce US citizenship? Consider the situation: you're a dual US / Dutch citizen. You want to avoid paying US income tax (or just to avoid filling in a form each year that results in the IRS telling you that your tax bill is $0 because the Netherlands' tax rate is higher). But the State Department's ren…

> Your method of enforcing this would (I assume) be to file a suit against the bank in the Netherlands and seek an order to prevent them from passing any information on you to the IRS. You would effectively be asking a Dutch court to rule on whether you can unilaterally renounce US citizenship.

This is incorrect. The method of enforcing tax obligations is spelled out in bilateral tax treaties. In this instance the US would lean on the Netherlands to enforce it and failure to pay the obligations to the Dutch would be punished by whatever their tax law says.

Re: On Receiving my Certificate of Loss of Nationality

#44

Post by jacquesm »

hbrav wrote: post #33

I have a question about this, that I've never been able to find a good answer to: what happens if you unilaterally renounce US citizenship? Consider the situation: you're a dual US / Dutch citizen. You want to avoid paying US income tax (or just to avoid filling in a form each year that results in the IRS telling you that your tax bill is $0 because the Netherlands' tax rate is higher). But the State Department's ren…

It will make you in violation of the law, and that could come back to haunt you in the future, for instance when and if you want to go and visit your family back in the USA.

I would strongly recommend against going that route.

Besides that, you still have to get your 'new' country to give you citizenship as well, which will go a lot smoother if the new citizenship is paired with renouncing the USA one, you really don't want to become 'stateless' for many reasons.

Re: On Receiving my Certificate of Loss of Nationality

#45

Post by KennyBlanken »

jacquesm wrote: post #32
KennyBlanken wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US expects you to pay your bar tab before you peel out of the parking lot.

No, this goes much further than that. They also want a slice of all the other bar tabs that you will run up in the future abroad.

The author of the article in question very specifically complains about having to settle up her tax bill and fix her tax accounting before she's allowed to renounce her citizenship, like this was some massive travesty of justice.

She also doesn't complain about paying taxes, but having her accounts reported to the IRS, and having to disclose the fact that she has access to funds in accounts not in her name....as well as not being as represented as she feels she should be from said taxation.

Re: On Receiving my Certificate of Loss of Nationality

#46

Post by Hamuko »

colechristensen wrote: post #34
jeffrallen wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You should try living as an expat before assuming her experiences are exaggerated. She is telling it like it is.

Is there any other reason to renounce your citizenship other than paperwork? Or taxes if you make a lot of money?

Like the fact that your home country keeps an eye on your and your non-American family members' financial information on a level that is usually reserved for criminals?

Re: On Receiving my Certificate of Loss of Nationality

#47

Post by marstall »

andylynch wrote: post #29
marstall wrote: post #12

ELI5 why she renounced her citizenship? Not getting it from that post, a 3 minute wander on her site and the FATCA Wikipedia page.

If you’re a US citizen living in another country you’ll find many banks and financial institutions decline to have you as a client because dealing with FATCA makes it far more trouble than it’s worth. No other developed country makes similar demands.

oh ha. somehow thought it was much more sinister

Re: On Receiving my Certificate of Loss of Nationality

#48

Post by VWWHFSfQ »

Hamuko wrote: post #30
VWWHFSfQ wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Americans living in other countries don't want to pay taxes anymore. Apparently the only option is to stop being an American, which she has decided to do.

> I pay almost $1000 per year to an accountant to fill out the forms—more and lengthier than they’d be if I lived in the US—only to prove I owe nothing, since I pay taxes here in the Netherlands. Apparently she wasn't paying taxes (to the US) anyways.

Then I'm even less clear on what her issues were. Somehow this is reminding me of that girl that took $350,000 in debt to get a Theater Management degree from Duke University and then blogged about how criminal the American higher education system is and how she was running off to Russia with her husband to escape the crippling debt.

It's like, you took almost half a mil in debt to go to a PRIVATE SCHOOL to get a degree that you would have no hope of ever using to pay back your _crippling debt_. Student load debt is a real problem in USA..but that's not it.

Re: On Receiving my Certificate of Loss of Nationality

#49

Post by voisin »

rognjen wrote: post #39

What a whiny and melodramatic series of posts from a privileged person giving up one first class citizenship for another out of economics and convenience. Many of my compatriots wait longer, pay less in absolute but more in relative terms and celebrate afterwards. Lots of us would do well to be more grateful.

Is it whiny and melodramatic to want banking and investment services in your country of residence?

Is it whiny and melodramatic to want to be able to utilize the retirement savings plans of your country of residence?

This isn’t just economics and convenience. It is basic living and Americans abroad are treated like second class citizens relative to those of other countries.

Re: On Receiving my Certificate of Loss of Nationality

#50

Post by MisterBastahrd »

I'm amused by her complaint that overseas Americans' votes are few and far between and thus she doesn't feel represented combined with her "no taxation without representation" quip.

Just because you don't belong to a group that has enough power to force the changes YOU want doesn't mean that you aren't being represented. I have no idea why any single person would expect to have a disproportionate amount of power simply because of where they don't live.

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