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Every search bar looks like a URL bar to users

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Re: Every search bar looks like a URL bar to users

#191

Post by shrimp_emoji »

cletus wrote: post #145

This is a good example of making the mistake of conflating implementation details and user interface design. Firefox always had two boxes: URL bar and search. One of the big changes Chrome made when it was born was to have the Omnibar, being of course one bar that does both. If you think about this as an engineer, Firefox's design decision makes sense. You don't want to accidentally leak things to a search engine. UR…

>Think like a user, not an engineer.

So your technology, too, can become a melange of idiotic decisions where you leak things into a search engine!

While you're at it, only feed your kids ice cream and pizza because that's what they want to eat. Think like a kid, not an adult.

Re: Every search bar looks like a URL bar to users

#192

Post by Adrig »

MauranKilom wrote: post #160
cletus wrote: post #145

This is a good example of making the mistake of conflating implementation details and user interface design. Firefox always had two boxes: URL bar and search. One of the big changes Chrome made when it was born was to have the Omnibar, being of course one bar that does both. If you think about this as an engineer, Firefox's design decision makes sense. You don't want to accidentally leak things to a search engine. UR…

On the other hand, I despise this exact change in Firefox. When I want to search, I use the search bar. When I want to enter an address, I use the address bar. I have a clear picture of what I want to do, and it is annoying to no end if the browser confuses one for the other. For example, by auto-completing a search term to a URL instead (see: computers don't know what users want). That's why I personally prefer the…

>For example, by auto-completing a search term to a URL instead

Press space? Not every use case has to be addressed by UI elements, especially when we're talking about edge cases

Re: Every search bar looks like a URL bar to users

#193

Post by MauranKilom »

oAlbe wrote: post #150
rudian wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Other than "momentary" blindness, it feels like some people don't look at their monitors three-dimensionally: It's just buttons and fields everywhere, there's no physical separation between them, there's no hierarchy. They just learn to operate some UIs mechanically and don't put any thought into it. That's why they whine when something moves; As far as they're concerned, that something disappeared into an alternate…

> three-dimensionally I had actually never put it into words before now, but that makes a lot of sense, and it actually accurately describes how I see my screen. To me, the OS taskbar is "higher" (as in, closer to me) than the application window title bar, which in turn is higher than whatever controls are in the application itself (think Firefox back and forward buttons, URL bar, setting menu etc), which is itself h…

Well, user interfaces used to be styled to look 3D:

https://pics.computerbase.de/5/7/4/1/0/1-1080.130195173.jpg

https://i1.wp.com/www.thespinningdonut.com/wp-content/upload...

Everything had bevels (XP) and/or shading (Vista) that evoked a 3D appearance. Buttons are extruded (and appear to physically move down when pushed), menus overlay each other, text boxes are "inset".

Nowadays though... it is apparently a cardinal sin to even make clickable things appear clickable. Looking at you, Windows/Office!

Re: Every search bar looks like a URL bar to users

#194

Post by dylan604 »

coldpie wrote: post #187
dylan604 wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Search and keywords are part of Google's DNA. Of course they want to utilize the thing that they do anywhere they can. Eliminating the URL means that everything is a keyword search to visit places. We've already seen how that doesn't work well with AOL. Maybe you're not old enough to remember it, so it sounds like a promising idea. The thing G has over AOL is that G has a complete profile on you that AOL never had. S…

> Eliminating the URL means that everything is a keyword search to visit places. I don't think you can jump to that conclusion. For example I can come up with an idea that removes URLs without going through google. Imagine a new protocol where the user types in something like "john's pizza cafe; order a pizza". My local pizza joint is registered in a DNS-like system and handles the query directly with some commodity…

> please don't nit-pick it to pieces.

that's not how this works. if you don't wont opinions, don't post an idea to the internet.

you've just replaced a working DNS system with a DNS system based on best guess or worse requiring a small biz to register with multiple DNS like systems. What happens when competitor beats you to those multiple registration points?

>But google isn't proposing that... yet :)

Why in the world would you think that google would do anything that did not use their system? That's just not based in reality one bit.

Re: Every search bar looks like a URL bar to users

#195

Post by coldpie »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #180
coldpie wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google is suggesting replacing the URL entirely. URLs have real problems, which are genuinely really hard to solve. They're also designed for a subset of web content, and a lot of modern web content does not fit into the URL scheme very well. I don't know if Google's replacement will be better, but I am at least willing to hear them out once they have a proposal.

I'd be happy to hear them out too. Much less happy with them just slowly, piece by piece, making their vision happen without "public consultation", just by the virtue of being the dominant browser vendor.

I don't think they're trying to "make their vision happen," I think they're trying to solve real issues people have with URLs. Some of their solutions don't work, as stated in the article I linked original, but I don't think they're doing anything nefarious. They're trying to serve their users, the vast majority of whom have no idea what a URL is.

Re: Every search bar looks like a URL bar to users

#196

Post by Nalta »

everdrive wrote: post #181
cletus wrote: post #145

This is a good example of making the mistake of conflating implementation details and user interface design. Firefox always had two boxes: URL bar and search. One of the big changes Chrome made when it was born was to have the Omnibar, being of course one bar that does both. If you think about this as an engineer, Firefox's design decision makes sense. You don't want to accidentally leak things to a search engine. UR…

>Users don't have the mental model to differentiate search terms and a URL. I don't think good software always aims for the lowest common denominator. It's not an unequivocal good that users' lack of education is catered to. Infantilizing users makes them more dependent on services, and less able to navigate the internet.

I feel like this is the same argument as "kids these days don't know anyone's phone number!" If it works it works

Re: Every search bar looks like a URL bar to users

#197

Post by Falling3 »

jamesfisher wrote: post #182
cletus wrote: post #145

This is a good example of making the mistake of conflating implementation details and user interface design. Firefox always had two boxes: URL bar and search. One of the big changes Chrome made when it was born was to have the Omnibar, being of course one bar that does both. If you think about this as an engineer, Firefox's design decision makes sense. You don't want to accidentally leak things to a search engine. UR…

Even as a technical user, I Google "natwest" instead of typing in "natwest.com". Much safer than typing "natwest.co" and getting caught by phishing sites.

I was going to chime in with the same thing. I do this as well, particularly while browsing on mobile. It's an extra click, but I can leave off at the very least the TLD and get better spell checking.

Re: Every search bar looks like a URL bar to users

#198

Post by coldpie »

dylan604 wrote: post #194
coldpie wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Eliminating the URL means that everything is a keyword search to visit places. I don't think you can jump to that conclusion. For example I can come up with an idea that removes URLs without going through google. Imagine a new protocol where the user types in something like "john's pizza cafe; order a pizza". My local pizza joint is registered in a DNS-like system and handles the query directly with some commodity…

> please don't nit-pick it to pieces. that's not how this works. if you don't wont opinions, don't post an idea to the internet. you've just replaced a working DNS system with a DNS system based on best guess or worse requiring a small biz to register with multiple DNS like systems. What happens when competitor beats you to those multiple registration points? >But google isn't proposing that... yet :) Why in the worl…

> you've just replaced a working DNS system with a DNS system based on best guess or worse requiring a small biz to register with multiple DNS like systems

Yes, I said it's a really dumb idea. Stop wasting your time nit-picking it :) It was an example of how you could create an open, keywords-based system without requiring Google as an intermediary.

> Why in the world would you think that google would do anything that did not use their system? That's just not based in reality one bit.

Google creates open standards all the time.

https://http2.github.io/faq/#whats-the-relationship-with-spd...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WebP

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VP9

I don't think their new URL scheme would catch on without buy-in from non-Google stakeholders, so there's plenty of incentive for them to come up with something in cooperation with those stakeholders, who would surely reject a strong dependency on Google's services.

Re: Every search bar looks like a URL bar to users

#199

Post by jkfdrsak »

SketchySeaBeast wrote: post #137
handrous wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Heck, there have recently been articles about STEM students that do not know how to work with a basic file directory. File directories, and the filesystem generally, confuse the hell out of the vast majority of computer users. We nerds forget this stuff because at age 12 we really gave a shit about it and took the time to internalize what it all means, and it's been second nature ever since, but most people haven't…

And it's limited to the systems we're exposed to. I grew up with DOS and then windows so I know file structure there no problem, but I'm still not comfortable with how Linux organizes things, and I haven't the faintest clue about Mac.

I used a friend's mac once and I (a competent windows/linux user) could not find the top most file directory. Scary times.

Re: Every search bar looks like a URL bar to users

#200

Post by JoshTriplett »

cletus wrote: post #145

This is a good example of making the mistake of conflating implementation details and user interface design. Firefox always had two boxes: URL bar and search. One of the big changes Chrome made when it was born was to have the Omnibar, being of course one bar that does both. If you think about this as an engineer, Firefox's design decision makes sense. You don't want to accidentally leak things to a search engine. UR…

> Tech-savvy people will just type "facebook.com"

Tech-savvy people will type f, see that their browser completes "acebook.com", and press enter. That's a form of search, it's just more directly provided by the browser and unambiguously serving the user.

(Ideally, tech-savvy people will type f and see no signs of facebook whatsoever, but that's an orthogonal issue.)

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