Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

OpenBSD 7.0

openbsd.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

81–90 of 229 posts

Re: OpenBSD 7.0

#81

Post by lolpython »

protomyth wrote: post #46
user3939382 wrote: post #24

My main use for OpenBSD is as a firewall/router, and they frequently make breaking changes to the pf rule syntax so I had to abandon it. Last breaking change when I checked was July, but it's been going on for many years. If you have one firewall no big deal, but if you set them up for customers all over the place it's a nightmare. They should take a page out of Microsoft's book here.

"My main use for OpenBSD is as a firewall/router, and they frequently make breaking changes to the pf rule syntax so I had to abandon it." Uhm... well, I've been using it since 3.0 (when pf was introduced) and its been very stable. You have at least 6 months to convert your pf and its never taken me more than a day to get it changed. Its well documented and frankly, even with all the horror stories, I've found friend…

I don’t think most people would agree that breaking changes every 6 months fits the definition of “stable” for a firewall.

Re: OpenBSD 7.0

#82

Post by blacktriangle »

Filligree wrote: post #80
blacktriangle wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It made me switch from Linux. If it doesn't sound compelling to you, that's okay too, Linux is great. But I do think focusing on the consistency of design really is the best high-level summary of the difference between Linux and OpenBSD.

Consistency is great, but there's no equivalent to NixOS for the BSDs -- that I know of. Am I actually wrong about that? Is there some declarative configuration system I should be using, which I've simply never heard of?

I think we're talking about different definitions of consistency.

In the BSD context, consistancy is that human effort has been put in to get the userspace to look similar. Similar behavior of command line tools, similar documentation, similar configuration, etc.

It looks like you're talking about consistancy of packages across installs, which is a totally different issue.

Re: OpenBSD 7.0

#83

Post by [deleted] »

lolpython wrote: post #81
protomyth wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"My main use for OpenBSD is as a firewall/router, and they frequently make breaking changes to the pf rule syntax so I had to abandon it." Uhm... well, I've been using it since 3.0 (when pf was introduced) and its been very stable. You have at least 6 months to convert your pf and its never taken me more than a day to get it changed. Its well documented and frankly, even with all the horror stories, I've found friend…

I don’t think most people would agree that breaking changes every 6 months fits the definition of “stable” for a firewall.

[deleted]

Re: OpenBSD 7.0

#84

Post by nix23 »

noja wrote: post #57
0xdeadb00f wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They make a good point though. OpenBSD is not known for it's stability.

I was referring not to the content of the comment, but the wording of its delivery.

That one?

>>They should take a page out of Microsoft's book here.

or mine?

>You should have known that before installing at your customers site en masse.

Sorry for stating a fact that you should know your OS before sprinkle it all over your customers.

Re: OpenBSD 7.0

#85

Post by agumonkey »

JoshTriplett wrote: post #59
agumonkey wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

even in a distro, you'll get various syntax variations for instance

Syntax of what?

cli programs, they all have different ways to handle arguments, options, help

ps: another instance, albeit not a BSD strength either, would be data format, every output is different, I, like a few people too wanted some json as pivot representation to cut the thousands of papercuts, that kind of uniformity is what I expect from "system"

Re: OpenBSD 7.0

#86

Post by stiray »

gtirloni wrote: post #53
yabones wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Linux systems are made by dozens of disparate teams, and it shows. Every command has a different syntax - just think about how "help" could be -h, --help, -help, -? etc BSDs are very tightly integrated. The entire OS is very consistent and 'correct', down to the tiny and pedantic details like putting things under /usr that are usually installed in /bin, because that's the way it's supposed to be . (Ex. `/usr/local/bi…

And that would make me switch from Linux why exactly? Don't get me wrong, I was a BSD user for many years (FreeBSD 3.5-5.0) but I don't think that's enough reason to switch.

Reason for my switch was that some key things (for me) were designed in a way that seemed more right that on linux and this is totally subjective opinion.

I am still running ubuntu on laptop and will switch when the next install is a thing, but I am running freebsd on server for years now and while i tremble on each update for the laptop, I dont for freebsd, even when updating from 12.x to 13.x.

Based on years of experience on both operating systems. I was surprised only once when freebsd made change where the base network settings weren't by default copied into fibs (you wont encounter this... probably ever) and even then I needed an hour to figure what the change was.

On the other side, I no longer count the nasty surprises the linux distributions played on me (like /etc/resolv.conf being overwritten by systemd resolv, just as trivial change). My laptop is unbootable for a year as they messed something regarding the order of zpool import (bpool being imported before rpool - probably a race condition) so i have to import it manually or it doesnt boot, while I have freebsd zfs root for ~10 years and it never failed me.

Details like that made me insecure about linux. And on the other side, made me highly secure about freebsd.

I think that (again, this is subjective, speaking only for myself)...

I... trust... BSD... guys. Based on experience.

I... dont trust linux... distributions. Based on experience.

But it might just be me.

Re: OpenBSD 7.0

#88

Post by protomyth »

lolpython wrote: post #81
protomyth wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"My main use for OpenBSD is as a firewall/router, and they frequently make breaking changes to the pf rule syntax so I had to abandon it." Uhm... well, I've been using it since 3.0 (when pf was introduced) and its been very stable. You have at least 6 months to convert your pf and its never taken me more than a day to get it changed. Its well documented and frankly, even with all the horror stories, I've found friend…

I don’t think most people would agree that breaking changes every 6 months fits the definition of “stable” for a firewall.

They don't change it every six months. You look in the release notes and check if anything changed. Heck, there have been years where no changes were required.

Re: OpenBSD 7.0

#89

Post by rgrmrts »

Filligree wrote: post #80
blacktriangle wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It made me switch from Linux. If it doesn't sound compelling to you, that's okay too, Linux is great. But I do think focusing on the consistency of design really is the best high-level summary of the difference between Linux and OpenBSD.

Consistency is great, but there's no equivalent to NixOS for the BSDs -- that I know of. Am I actually wrong about that? Is there some declarative configuration system I should be using, which I've simply never heard of?

I was actually looking into this as well. I recently switched my server to NixOS and the declarative configuration has been really nice to work with and fits easily into my workflow/tools (emacs with tramp).

I’d be really interested in seeing a variant on top of openbsd that has a comparable declarative layer. If anyone knows of such projects, please share!

Re: OpenBSD 7.0

#90

Post by mirekrusin »

I'd love to try but I'm experiencing hardcore option paralysis every time I start thinking about it.

FreeBSD, OpenBSD or NetBSD – _that_ is the question.

Wait, maybe DragonFly actually? illumos? ...wait, I mean OpenIndiana, I think... wait, what's OmniOS? Is Darwin a thing, like I could just have BSD and macOS for free or something?

Post reply on HN